Cruise Ships and the Canal Street Eddy

And The Reason Is ..............................................

Greetings From New Orleans ,
And The Reason Is , yes Frank you are right and on the money ! The up stream eddy at Canal St. is quite a challenge at times and will make a Christian out of any self respecting Pilot ! Furthermore , just like the Str. Natchez , always lays at the Toulouse St. Wharf , this too is because of the up stream eddy that comes up the bend across from Algiers Point . ALso , it is a matter of convenience for the Natchez to lay at her birth in this position bocause when she returns to the Toulous St. Wharf , she is already in a " head down position " and then when she departs from her birth she is already facing in the down stream position for her departure and tour of the New Orleans harbor ! Now , having said that I have noticed and photographed some Cruise Ships in a " Head Up " position due to the fact that at the times of low river the up stream eddy there is just simply not as strong and prevelant ! One other unknown fact about the Cruise ships that come to New Orelans is that although they all take a Louisian State Commissioned River Pilot , when the Cruise Ship makes its approach to its birth , the Captain on the Cruis Ship actually , " Takes The Con " and actully performs the docking and for that matter the docking as well !
First of all , this is a legal action by the ship's Captain and the Pilot is there to advise and assist in anyt form that the Captain so chooses to allow him to do so ! Go FIgure
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

Thanks, Ted, for the quick response. That's what i thought and how I answered the question on the other wedsite. Someone else said I was full of wet hay and prunes (to use a C.W.Stollism) and that he or she was the one with first hand knowledge of the situation.

What a beautiful ship that CARNIVAL TRIUMPH is! I was on her last fall. I am booking the CONQUEST out of NOLA later this year. Say what you will, but Carnival won me over.

As modern cruise ships go...she is pretty stunning looking in my book. Most of them are so slab-sided...nothing like a traditional ship!

Wish we had the NORWAY back...but, the chances of the DELTA QUEEN sailing again are MUCH higher than a vessel like the NORWAY being replicated in modern times.

Streckfus at Canal St.

And if you recall, Frank, any of the Streckfus boats that docked at Canal always faced downriver: the J.S., SIDNEY, CAPITOL, PRESIDENT. The eddy makes it to Canal St. regardless of the river depth, but it extends upriver more as the river rises. Two exceptions to this downstream landing were the little bayou boat, the VOYAGER, and the large Canal St. ferry. The eddy is so unpredictable in high water, that the two bleach bottles the NATCHEZ has tied to the upper and lower end of the Toulouse St. wharf often are running in opposite directions. When the DELTA QUEEN docked at lower Bienville, she usually faced upstream, unless they were doing some painting or scrubbing to the port side.

In my posting on the other website I did indeed mention that the Streckfus boats that docked at the foot of Canal always landing facing downstream.

The " Old " Toulouse St. Wharf !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
Frank , first of all , thanks so much for posting this thread and for me at least and in a more or less and round about way it conjured up some old memories for me as well !
Years ago , when I first started working on the Str. Delta Queen , we would occasionally land at the " Old " Toulouse St. Wharf ! Now , the " Old " Toulouse St. Wharf , looked nothing like the " New " Toulouse St. Wharf , where the Str. Natchez now calls home !
Back then the " Old " Toulouse St. Wharf was in such a deplorable condition that there were such large holes in the deck of the wharf that we ( the deckhands ) would have to not only place large sections of plywood over these same holes . We would also have to actually lay out a roped path way so that the passengers could some what safely find there way to the levee !
I also remember that as the DQ make her approach to the wharf , we could actually see the pilings that supported the deck of the wharf , actually swaying due to the force of the current of the eddy !
ALso , on those rare occasions that the Str. Delta Queen would land at the
" Old " Toulouse St. Wharf , we would also land in a " Head Down " position and profile in order to face into the current of the prevailing up stream eddy !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

You're welcome, Ted. I'm glad that I started it too. I quoted you in my response over on the other board. That eddy making a Christian out of any self respecting pilot is pretty good.

If anyone wants to add their two cents or just see what's going on over there, the thread on Cruise Critic is: Cruise Critic Message Boards > Ports of Call > New Orleans > SPIRIT Docked Facing Downriver. It's well worth a look.

There seems to be a difference of opinion, but as Mark Twain said, "It's a difference of opinion that makes a horse race."

Why the choice?

"You got me, Cap! I'll take a Crescent Pilot's opinion over a NOBRA Pilot's any day about landing at Erato Street or Julia Street in New Orleans." That's what you posted over on Cruise Critic, and I'm curious why you would make that choice - the Crescent pilots' main route comes up to approximately the Industrial Canal, where NOBRA then takes over. If the ship is docking in NOLA, the Crescent pilot can extend a few miles. The Julia/Erato Street docks are in the area which Ted and other NOBRA pilots regularly cover. So why would you take a Crescent pilot's opinion over a NOBRA's about that landing? The BRIGHTFIELD, Riverwalk, and the port of NOLA was extremely lucky to have NOBRA 70 on board that day, coming through territory he knows blindfolded...

I'm glad that someone has taken a look see over there, and I hope we get a few of those Cruise Critics, that know what they're talking about, over here!

Good question,Judy, and my answer is because the Crescent Pilots are the ones that bring the cruise ships up and into New Orleans once above Pilottown. They are the ones with the first hand experience with modern day cruise ships. I can't think of any cruise ship that has recently gone above New Orleans with a NOBRA Pilot onboard. Also as has been pointed out on both boards by a Crescent Pilot and NOBRA Pilot, the cruise ship's Master handles the ship's docking, and who knows how much that captain knows about the vagaries of the Mississippi in New Orleans Harbor.

It's worth taking another look over there. Ted is having some well deserved praise heaped on him.

To clarify (and Ted, please correct me if I'm wrong here): Crescent Pilots' licenses go up to Huey P. Long Bridge. If a ship is destined for a dock anywhere below the H.P. Long Bridge, the Cresc pilot remains aboard. By the same token, if the ship is departing anywhere below the bridge, headed for sea, no NOBRA pilot is involved...the Cresc pilot gets on and rides all the way to Pilottown.

If a ship is destined for a dock ABOVE H. P. Long Bridge, a NOBRA pilot gets on to take it there. The NOBRA pilots normally get on the ship northbound at Port Ship Service, which is immediately abve Chalmette Slip, about 4 miles below Canal Street. The lower end of the NOBRA pilots' jurisdiction is Algiers Canal Forebay, mile 88. If a ship is southbound from above H. P. Long Bridge and is destined for, say, General Ancorage, the NOBRA pilot will stay on until the ship is anchored there with no Cresc pilot getting on until the ship departs there southbound. The reason the NOBRA pilots get on at Port Ship Service is simply a matter of convenience.

Both sets of pilots are intimately familiar with the entire length of the harbor and all of its quirks, etc. There is a bit (18 miles) of overlap in the jurisdictions.

Over Lapping Route !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
Well Bob , your right on the money ! Technically speaking , both the NOBRA Pilot route and the Crescent River Port Pilot route , over lab essentially from Southport Light which is just above Upper Nine Mile Point on the East Bank of the river down to the Algiers Locks , on the West Bank of the river .
Furthermore , when a ship comes up the river to " Change Pilots " , this is usually performed in the vicinity of the New Orleans , General Anchorage , and likewise when a ship comes down the river , once again the " Pilot Change " is performed in this same area .
Years ago I was told by an older and new retired NOBRA Pilot that the purpose of this " Pilot Change " location was because of the long straight " Reach " in the river and it was simply a straight and safe place to make the " Pilot Change " !
Now having said that , when a ship is located for example at one of the New Orleans , city docks and is ordered to go to a destination above Southport Lt. and the Huey P. Long Bridge , well then a NOBRA Pilot will be dispatched to go to this ship and pilot it to its destination above the Huey P. Long . Also , there is a mid stream buoy system , simply called the Zito Buoy System which is located above the Southport Lt. and yet below the Huey P. Long Bridge . Consequently , when a ship is either going there or for that matter leaving there a NOBRA pilot will service this ship and once again make a designated " Pilot Change " in the vicinity of the New Orleans , General Anchorage , Now , if that same ship is ordered to go to a destination south of the city of New Orleans and below the Algiers Locks , river mile 88 LMR , then a Crescent River Port Pilot will be dispatched to pilot this same ship to its destination .
ALso , years ago there were no ship docks above New Orleans except for the Standard Oil Dock , now known as Exxon . Consequently , those Pilots of long ago that would take the ships to the Exxon Refinery in Baton Rouge were once know simply as the Standard Oil , Pilots ! Then after World War II , the Standard Oil Pilots incorporated into the New Orleans Baton Rouge Steamship Pilots ! In the beginning there were only nine such pilots and for the most part they were all EX towboat pilots because it was only they that knew the route all the way to Exxon or Standard Oil , Baton Rouge !
Consequently , over the years the river route has dramatically developed into a number os smaller intermediate " Ports Of Call " with numerous grain elevators , mid stream buoy systems , chemical plants , refineries and oil terminals that then required the small NOBRA Pilots to increase their number to keep up with and to handle the amount of work that was now required of them !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

Frank X. Prudent;25813 wrote: I'm glad that someone has taken a look see over there, and I hope we get a few of those Cruise Critics, that know what they're talking about, over here!

Good question,Judy, and my answer is because the Crescent Pilots are the ones that bring the cruise ships up and into New Orleans once above Pilottown. They are the ones with the first hand experience with modern day cruise ships. I can't think of any cruise ship that has recently gone above New Orleans with a NOBRA Pilot onboard. Also as has been pointed out on both boards by a Crescent Pilot and NOBRA Pilot, the cruise ship's Master handles the ship's docking, and who knows how much that captain knows about the vagaries of the Mississippi in New Orleans Harbor.

It's worth taking another look over there. Ted is having some well deserved praise heaped on him.

Ok, I'll buy that - except for the bit about no cruise ships going above NOLA with a NOBRA pilot aboard - no cruise ships go above NOLA, period. The GNO, aka CCC, will catch most of them if they tried. It was a strange feeling last month to be driving across that 170 ft. high bridge and seeing a section of the ship at the terminal towering above the bridge decking. A group of pilots which hasn't been mentioned in this topic is the Federal Pilots. They are on board US flagged ships from BR to the Gulf. The groups we've been discussing deal with the foreign-flagged ships, which are probably 98 to 1 US flagged ship.

Judy Patsch;25819 wrote: Ok, I'll buy that - except for the bit about no cruise ships going above NOLA with a NOBRA pilot aboard - no cruise ships go above NOLA, period.

Well, it's been a few years, but the cruise "ships" of Majestic America Line regularly operated above New Orleans. 😉

Also after Katrina the Silja Line's FINNJET did make it up to Baton Rouge. She was to be used as a hotel ship for Katrina refugees. I'm not sure how long she was there, and I don't think the Town Fathers were too thrilled having her there.

On Rare Occasions , The Cruise Ships.......................

Greetings From New Orleans ,
On rare occasions , the Cruise Ships do go above both the Greater New Orleans Hwy. Bridge and the Huey P. Long Bridge when enroute to destinations into what some of us affectionately refer to as " NOBRA - Land " !
A few years ago there was a cruise ship that went on a supposed " Cruise To No Where " , where in actuality it went up to Baton Rouge and then returned to New Orleans ! Well , maybe they were right in referring to it as a cruise to " No Where " LOL !
Piloting a Cruise Ship was and is a rather unique experience due to the fact that unlike the other commercial ships like the bulkers , the tankers or even some of the heavy lift submersibles , the Cruise Ships for the most part or much cleaner , all officiers are in uniform and the best part is the FOOD is so much better and unique !Also , for some of the NOBRA pilots it is some what awkward at first at least to pilot form a bridge located all the way forward such as was the case with piloting the steamboats ; DQ , MQ & AQ ! Just a different perspective and yes literally a different point of view !
ALso , every so often the NOBRA Pilots will get a small cruise ship enroute to the Avondale Shipyards for repairs and or renovation . Having said that , it is now my understanding that Avondale Shipyards no longer makes commercial repairs so it just may be even a longer time before we see a Cruise Ship enroute to Avondale !