Greetings From The " Left " Coast !

A Few More " King " Pictures !

Greetings Again From The " Left " Coast !
Just a few more Str. Delta King pictures .
Hope you enjoy !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

Greetings From New Orleans !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
Just a few more Str. Delta King pictures !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Ted Davisson;23740 wrote: Greetings Again From The " Left " Coast !
Just a few more Str. Delta King pictures .
Hope you enjoy !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

Ted:
Thanks for the Great photos.. I hope that time affords me the chance to grace the DELTA KING someday ..

As for the lack of a Steam CaLLiope.. We could rectify that .. 🙂

" Roger " , on the Steam Caliope !

Dave ,
" Roger " , on the Steam Caliope ! I am sure all te homeless people in the area of where the " King " lies would certainly appreciate a good ol' Southern Tune !
Heres a few more " King " pictures !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Dave Morecraft;23742 wrote: Ted:
Thanks for the Great photos.. I hope that time affords me the chance to grace the DELTA KING someday ..

As for the lack of a Steam CaLLiope.. We could rectify that .. 🙂

More " King " Pictures !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
Just a few more Str. Delta King pictures !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Ted Davisson;23744 wrote: Dave ,
" Roger " , on the Steam Caliope ! I am sure all te homeless people in the area of where the " King " lies would certainly appreciate a good ol' Southern Tune !
Heres a few more " King " pictures !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

I had the pleasure of spending a weekend back in Feb 2002 on the DK, I was given a tour by the part-time parking valet, whose wife was the g/m of the hotel operation at the time!

Worse case of deja-vu! I hope to visit Sac again soon!

Ted, I don't suppose you noted who built those two big models? As Fred Way used to say about the DQ and DK "those two boats were as alike as Ike and Mike". I note in one of your photos that there is an enclosed passageway between the main deckhouse and the "bow house". Wonder if it was there when the boats were in service in CA? Thanks for sharing all the photos

Hi Ted,
I have a powerpoint show comparing and contrasting the two boats as they are (or were two years ago), I gave it in the Orleans room on one of our trips. Some parts of the King are very authentic to how the boats were here in California, but there is a stairway from the boiler deck to the main where the smokestack was--and of course, the boiler room is long gone. The main stairway is identical, but at some point someone pilfered the wonderful brass art-deco railings on the King, so the plain railing there now might make the stairs look a bit different. I believe some of the boats are original, and some are replicas. I have a friend who worked on the restoration, I could ask him sometime. The King's dinning room is, I believe where it was originally. The Orleans room was a freight deck area. out here. I have forgotten who made the models, but they date from "back then." Yes, the Sun deck cabins are fewer and bigger on the King. The pilot house is a second floor viewing area for the "Captain's Quarters" room. And they have a compass up there! (they might have had one out here to aid a bit in navigating--the river really meanders about, and if you know where North is, if you are familiar with the river, you could know where you were/are--as the banks are pretty nondescript--and even more so at night when the boats usually ran. I'll have to look that up sometime.
Steamcerely,
David D.
PS yes, if you're on the riverside of the boat and squint your eyes, you can believe you are running the river on the DQ!! (Well, at least I can!)

The only time I saw the DK, it was still a gutted wreck, waiting for some sort of resurrection. You could see straight through it. Not a pretty sight. Are there any displays on the King that show the restoration?

The King is a major case of deja-vu I think, in certain places you can look down the deck and barely tell a difference. The dog house on the bow is a replica, and from all the pictures I have seen, it appears that it was originally open on the back side, and there was no sheltered walkway between it and the superstructure.

The pilothouse is the biggest disappointment of the boat in my opinion. They floor has been totally cut out, and only a small catwalk around the perimeter remains. The wheel isn't original or even close to the right size. The binnacle is also just more cheesy nautical decor they put in there to theme their expensive honeymoon suite called "Captain's Quarters" that now takes the place of the original officer country.

The reason the Texas appears larger on the King is b/c the bar is twice the size. The bar extends forwards as far as on the Queen, but without the stack casing running up through there, the bar took its place is now twice as long.

When I talked to Mike Coyne who's family restored the boat he told me the models were made by an older gentleman there in California, I don't know when, but the fascinating thing about them is, they had real miniature steam engines in them and were remote control! If my memory isn't failing me (which it may) they were taken out when the Coyne's bought the models from the man. They appear to be about 1/48th scale.

Overall, like Ted and the others, the Delta King is a must see for any Delta Queen fan. I think its amazing that we have not one, but both of these vessels still, some 83 years after they first went into service. You know her builders are looking down proudly on them both!

Phillip , Thanks For The Info. !

Phillip ,
Thanks for the information you provided on the Str. Delta King ! For me at least it certainly answered a few lingering questions and helped me connect some of the missing dots between the two steamers !
For me , its that age old question ; which came first the chicken or the egg and in this case I am still wondering two questions ; No. 1 , How identical were thetwo boats when they were constructed and No. 2 , Which boat underwent the most radical changes over the years .
I am of the impression that for the most part , both steamers had identical engines and boilers due to the fact that many of the more essential engineering parts were taken off the " King " and were then used as spare parts on the " Queen " .
Thanks for all your help and contributions on this subject !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Phillip Johnson;23755 wrote: The King is a major case of deja-vu I think, in certain places you can look down the deck and barely tell a difference. The dog house on the bow is a replica, and from all the pictures I have seen, it appears that it was originally open on the back side, and there was no sheltered walkway between it and the superstructure.

The pilothouse is the biggest disappointment of the boat in my opinion. They floor has been totally cut out, and only a small catwalk around the perimeter remains. The wheel isn't original or even close to the right size. The binnacle is also just more cheesy nautical decor they put in there to theme their expensive honeymoon suite called "Captain's Quarters" that now takes the place of the original officer country.

The reason the Texas appears larger on the King is b/c the bar is twice the size. The bar extends forwards as far as on the Queen, but without the stack casing running up through there, the bar took its place is now twice as long.

When I talked to Mike Coyne who's family restored the boat he told me the models were made by an older gentleman there in California, I don't know when, but the fascinating thing about them is, they had real miniature steam engines in them and were remote control! If my memory isn't failing me (which it may) they were taken out when the Coyne's bought the models from the man. They appear to be about 1/48th scale.

Overall, like Ted and the others, the Delta King is a must see for any Delta Queen fan. I think its amazing that we have not one, but both of these vessels still, some 83 years after they first went into service. You know her builders are looking down proudly on them both!

One More Thing !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
One more thing that has caught my eye and attention is that from all the past pictures of the Str. Delta King , is that it is appearently that both boats were built without port and starb'd Bridge Wings !
Not only that , and the pictures will bear me out , is the fact that the Pilot House on both boats is recessed from port and starb'd sides of the boats , which means that during times of docking and undocking , the Master ( or Pilot ) of the Vessel was at some what of a visual disadvantage . There is no way that he could see the entire length of the boat and I can only imagine that the game plan for docking and undocking these vessels was to intentionally land the bow of the boat first and only then allow the stern to fall in . Having said that , I would also assume that the two Steamers arrived and departed at the same docks or passenger terminals , in Sacremento and San Francisco and the Master of these vessels had both a pretty good eye and idea for where the boat would be in position at the respective terminals .
I would also imagine that there were very few if any electronics on board and communication with the Mate on the Bow and Stern of these boat was limited at best .
I am sure that these " Ancient Mariners " really did earn their money !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Ted Davisson;23739 wrote: Greetings From The " Left Coast " !
Last week I attended the American Pilot Association convetion , in Las Vegas , Nevada and I was able to juggle my schedule in order to also make a side trip to Sacramento , California to pay a visit to the Str. Delta King !
It was my first time on board the " King " , and I have to say that for the most part in was a very favorable and memorable experience !
The " King " is now truly an up scale " Bed and Breakfast " , due to the fact that her engines and boilers are now gone but she still retains that certain something , either real or imagined , that makes you know that you are in the presence of steamer royality .
At one point I thought I was in literally a parallel universe and I was slipping from one deminsion to another between the world of the Str. Delta Queen and that of the Str. Delta King ! For example , from first look at the " King " you would think that she was still an exact replica of the " Queen " but it did not take long to realize the fundemental differences between the two boats . I guess the most basic difference was the absence of the forwrd Texas Deck , on the " King " and the presence of the forward " Deck House " , that still resides on her bow .
On the inside of the " King " , you enter the boat from the starb'd stern where the Purser's Office is now located and there is no aft cabin lounge to speak of . In place of the " Kings " , forward Purser's Office is now located an elevator that operates between the Cabin Deck and the Main Deck of the boat . In place of the Aft Cabin Deck State Rooms is a spacious dining room . There was no " Orleans Room " on the " King's " Main Deck and in its place were conference rooms and officies . There was a Texas Deck bar and stair case and if I am not mistaking it appeared to be a bit larger in size than that of the " Queens " . The State Rooms were well apointed and very comfortable beds as well . From that discovery I naturally wondered , if the " King " was remodeled and the state rooms were removed or if on the " Queen " , the state rooms were installed ?? Does anyone know for sure ?? At the time , no one that worked on the " King " could tell me . Go Figure !
Also , on the outside of the boat , I noticed that there were no Pitman Arms connecting the wheel to the engines , on the Pilot House there were no Bridge Wings , no port and starb'd Running Lights , and no side Name Boards and no large Air Vents as was on the " Queen " . Athough entry into the Pilot House was not possible you could still see the upper portion of the Pilot Wheel and what appeared to be a Binacle as well . The outer decks appeard to be the same as on the " Queen " with beautiful mahogany hand rails and deck lightening as well . What also caught my eye was the presence of the Life Boats both port , starb'd and forward and upon close examination they appeared to be origional to the " King " due to the fact that you could see the rivets that they were constructed with .
Also , on the " King's " bow was the Capstan and H Bit although the bit was in a state of extreme wood rot . The state rooms on the Upper Deck ( Sun Deck ) had been enlarged with a spacious bathroom and shower and with very adequate heating and cooling systems , which unfortunately the " Queen " always lacked . Also , on the
" King " there was no Caliope and I am sure that just may be the deciding factor if some should so choose not to come for a visit ! Joking !!
All and all it was a very enjoyable experience and I highly reccomend to everyone to take the time to visit the " King " and to make your own judgement on wheather the " King " is either a Steamboat or a Bed and Breakfast , or both !!
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70

Ted, I would strongly recommend Stan Garvey's excellent book "King and Queen of the River" to you. He answers all your questions, and more!

I agree with Bob, Stan's book is worth its weight in gold to any DQ fan, excellent read, and usually easy to find a copy on Amazon.com or eBay. I'm fortunate enough to have a first edition copy that I purchased on the Delta King many years ago, and when Stan Garvey was on the Delta Queen in 2008, he signed it for me.

He wrote.."Purchased on the King, signed on the Queen, what a perfect combination!"

One of my favorite pieces now!

Ted,
When they were new, they were identical twins. Because of the individuality of wood construction, there were, and are, probably some dimensional differences, but they were built to the same plans. I think it was the King's main staircase that was rebuilt about three times before they got it "right." As to which boat has had the most modifications, visually, the King is closer to original than the queen. Mechanically, the Queen, with intact machinery, is the winner there--however, she does ride on a new, larger hull, and she's a bit "hump-backed" due to a mis-calculation in the new hull.
So, it's a toss-up! At least, IMHO.
S'
David D.

Ted,
In answer to your questions, observations, YES, and Yes! The two boats had regular runs, one going upriver, while the other went downriver. They were "Overnight" boats, and usually ran in the dark. Pulled up to the same docks over and over. California boats were known for centered pilot houses, single stacks, and higher freeboard than their cousins "back east" (which, y'all consider "the West"--Us folks out here can't figger that one out--y'all many days drive EAST of here!).
S'
David D.
Bridge wings??? We don' need no stinkin' bridge wings!! 🙂 Heh heh heh!

Nor bow thruster, or even radar, and they ran the Sacramento in fog. That's when the compass came into play. (I find this excruciatingly hard to believe, but they used to do some pretty risky things on the Mississippi, et. al., as well).

Phillip , Thanks Again !

Phillip ,
Thanks again for your insight and information ! One last question concerning these two " West Coast " steamers ; were both boats pressed into service during WWII , and why do you think Tom Green chose to purchase the
" Queen " , instead of the " King " ??
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

David Dewey;23769 wrote: Ted,
In answer to your questions, observations, YES, and Yes! The two boats had regular runs, one going upriver, while the other went downriver. They were "Overnight" boats, and usually ran in the dark. Pulled up to the same docks over and over. California boats were known for centered pilot houses, single stacks, and higher freeboard than their cousins "back east" (which, y'all consider "the West"--Us folks out here can't figger that one out--y'all many days drive EAST of here!).
S'
David D.
Bridge wings??? We don' need no stinkin' bridge wings!! 🙂 Heh heh heh!

Ted,

Though I am not Phillip, I think I can offer you an answer to your questions. Capt. Tom Greene initially bid on the DELTA KING, as she was the first offered. His bid of $26,350.00 for the KING was trumped by the Southeast Asia Importing and Exporting Company, as they bid $60,168.00 for the KING. Capt. Tom then bid higher on the DELTA QUEEN ($46,250) and was the highest (and only) bidder on her. On the 20th of November 1946 Capt. Tom Greene was wired letting him know he owned her.

In February of 1947 Capt. Tom Greene was at Fulton Shipyard working out the details of preparing the DELTA QUEEN for shipment to New Orleans. While there he met Mr Chok na Roang, of Southeast Asia Importing and Exporting Company. Mr Roang offered the boat to Capt. Tom for their expenses. Southeast Asia thought they had purchased a screw-wheel boat capable of deep sea operation. As Capt. Frederick Way Jr. reports in his book, "Saga of the DELTA QUEEN", Capt. Tom declined the offer, "realizing by now he would be well occupied and obligated to the needs of but one of these "fair babes"."

If Capt. Tom Greene had been successful in his first bid, he would have saved a considerable amount of money and we would be lamenting the DELTA KING having ended service in 2008. One has to wonder what history would look like if the twins had switched places. Can you imagine the Delta King Steamboat Company? Would the boats have all had KING in their names instead? MISSISSIPPI KING, AMERICAN KING...doesn't have much of a ring, does it?

What if he had purchased BOTH boats? I doubt we would have had either of them in this day and time. Filling one was more than Capt. Tom Greene's widow Letha C. Greene was able to do in the 1950's. One would think one of the two vessels would have been laid up to keep the other running. By borrowing parts, necessity, and economics eventually one of them would have been scuttled.

Maybe the way fate was dealt was the best for them. Had they both come to New Orleans before the war (as Isbransdten Steam Ship Line bought them in 1940 with this as their intention) one has to wonder if they would have served at all. The war would have made them useless to anyone in the New Orleans area. One has to assume they'd have been laid up and never run again. Perhaps Capt. Tom Greene would have bought one or both of them when this operation failed? Perhaps he would have known more about them and decided not to purchase either of them? Perhaps he would have cancelled passenger service altogether after the GORDON C. GREENE met her demise? We will never know for sure.

I am just glad we have had the DELTA QUEEN on the Mississippi River system all these years and that my forefathers had the foresight to do what they did so I could enjoy the beauty of steamboating for all the years I have been able to.

Travis

Phillip: I agree. If Capt. Ways saying of like Mike & Ike applies, then the DK pilot wheel must have larger then the one seen in Ted's photo..
Cuz The DELTA QUEEN's pilot wheel is hanging in the Ohio River Museum ..