How Low Can It Go?

Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 158
Topic starter  

Well I have read all the back posts about paddlewheels, there construction and what not, but I thought I would throw a topic out there for some more information!

The Chautauqua Belle as most of you are familiar with is a smaller steamboat, so we have to play with our trim alot to keep our Paddlewheel what I imagine is the right trim. However when we begin to get down to about 1,000 gallons of fuel and more then 200 gallons in the holding tank it's game over and the paddlewheel is down deep.

What I was told from previous Captains is they always tried to keep the inside of the buckets level with the waterline. This year with our crowds increasing, which called for more hospitality supplies, seating, not to mention everyone loves to sit in the rear of the upper deck to be able to see the paddlewheel, the water has came up one time about 12 inches above the inside edge of the bucket, during normal conditions this year the waterline is about 4 or 5 inches from the inside bucket edge.

How much do you think this affects speed and efficiency? We are wondering if we should contact a naval architect to see about correcting the issue if it truly makes an impact on the performance of the vessel. We can easily see changes in speed, and the engines are obviously more stressed, but I imagined that would be the same case since we have 100 passengers onboard.



   
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Shipyard Sam
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

Stengs' Free Advise

G. W. Stinger, Rabbit Hash Shipyard's resident "Naval Architect", took a few minutes away from his very busy time sitting around the front porch of General Store to have a look at your query, and he said, more-or-less:

"Why ya wanna waste money real money on a real Navy Architect when you have the solution at hand? Reckon yer fuel tank is forward, so when it's down to a thousand gallons it's causing the stern to squat, and when the waste water tank is gettin' near full, it just agrivates the situation. And allowing all them folks to set back in the stern ain't helping none neither.

My advise is to keep them fuel tanks topped off in spite of the high price of diesel, and pump off the waste water more often and not let em get filled up so much.

As far as all them passengers crowding back of the boat to watch the wheel-- not that's another category. Restrict seatin' back aft, or else hold a Bingo game, or some other distraction, up front.

Now you fellers already what makes yer boat run the best, so all you need to do is to follow what you already know, and you shouldn't have no more trouble. Hope this helps."



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Sigh! at the risk of making a triviality of Mat's very real problem, I gotta say that Ole G. W. Stringer's a sharpie alright as a Naval Architect. Had a similar problem on the BELLE OF RABBIT HASH. His solution was to announce that there was a topless beach up ahead. All the fellers done took themselves off to the front of the boat. The gals followed to "keep an eye" on the fellers. He did not say how to deal with the fact that the Chief Engineer was the first one to go forward or the near riot that ensued when they learned it was just the beach of the Mcville, Kentucky Fire Dept. He said that if the black-water tanks wuz to stay dry, the sale of "steamboat popcorn" (Pound of salt per pound of corn) would hafta be curtailed. Now, if the mate could just get Polly Darton up front in one of her "up-front" outfits, the problem would be solved. Then, too, there's the Rabbit Hash Belly Dancers...They might be available...Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Mat: Is there no room up front for one of those cheap polyethylene tanks that farmers use to water their plants? Tobacco farmers around her need to water the seedlings as they plant them and such may not be available in your country. Filled with water (water is heavier than fuel oil) it might make a measurable difference. It should preferably be located below the water line and I have no idea what the "coasties" might say but I'll bet that it will be something! Cap'n Walnut PS: a calcium chloride solution as used in tractor tires is considerably heavier then plain water.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1100
 

Having had an even smaller boat than the CB and the same general problem with passengers going aft, we just had to live with it. It didn't happen all the time, but we did limit the number of people on the top deck when it was busy. It does put a strain on the wheel. The DQ wheel dipped too deep for a long time and I don't know if this had anything to do with the shaft breaking, but we have also heard that the shaft was broken on our smaller paddlewheel tour boat because the operator had it lowered all the way down. (It's nice when you can raise and lower paddlewheels, but I don't think that is an option on larger boats.)

Putting some weight forward is a good idea. We had about a ton of concrete in our forward bilge in the form of 40 lb. chunks so we could remove it if need be, which was the case when the water got low. The water idea would work. We thought about doing that but stayed with the concrete.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1100
 

Starboard ballast

What a strong little chair!!! You need this guy on the bow.4081.jpg



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1453
 

I can only hope that is not his wife.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Lexie: Having an even smaller boat, albeit not a paddle-wheeler in MISSIE, I can tell you that sometimes with only one passenger he or she would elect to join the engineer/pilot in the rear seat. As you might guess, it would give MISSIE an attitude...something like a NIKE missal sitting on its launching pad! MISSIE is a propeller launch and for whatever reason, when heavily down by the stern, she would run perceptibly slower than if loaded flat or even down by the head. Back in the old days, one of the many mate's jobs was to see that the freight on packet boats was distributed for ease of loading and unloading AND keeping the boat in some reasonable trim. Mark Twain said that when racing, the boat needed to be in port/stbd trim too...to the extent that the pilot stood in the middle of the pilot house and parted his hair in the middle! I do know that with my two little steam launches, when I throw the rudder over one way or the other, the engine "knows it" instantly. Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 164
 

Here on the Belle, even with her trim being ideal, her buckets still dip several inches in the water. We've been putting her on a weight loss program, but she's had over ninety years of weight gaining on us. You would be amazed, though, at the number of little things you can change to lighten the load. For example, we chipped paint off most of the main deck a few years ago and managed to lose around 200lbs!



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1100
 

And she, by the way, is a normal size person, not a midget.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1453
 

Just goes to show how all those calculations Alan spoke of in the stability thread can vary. Imagine trying to trim and balance an airplane with that guy aboard.



   
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 132
 

Getting off topic, but when I worked at the airport, I actually had to fuel, or refuel, smaller CRJ type aircraft due to passenger placement. Several times private aircraft pilots requested off balance fuel loads for the same reason.



   
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Shipyard Sam
Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

Steam-powered Aeroplane

Ever notice how small many aircraft pilots are? A few years ago, my son and I wanted to take a plane ride at an airshow, so the little skinny pilot, who was being smoozed by another teeny-tiny dude who sat in the right seat while my 250 lbs was seated in the rear with another guy just as big, and my son, still a boy, was wedged-in between us. Before the pilot could start the engine, the stern-heavy plane fell on its tail, so my son and I immediately volunteered to get out of that plane. Had we taken off, the aircraft would have been uncontrollable and stalled. I still shudder when I think of those fly-weight idiots hogging the front while they piled the beef astern. I'm not being unfair when It come to airplane pilots by called so many of them small, but it is a fact of life that some of the very best ones are. I may be one of the exceptions with my own Commercial Airplane Pilot's ticket.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 841
 

Matthew, the idea is to push water back, not lift it. Get the head down and the wheel up and your boat will perform better. Use ballast up forward only if you have to. Be sure you can remove it when necessary. If you use water in a tank press the tank FULL, with no air at the top. Bricks or concrete blocks will do. Whatever you use make sure it will stay put. Remove all weights that have accumlated over the years. Boats, like people, gain weight as they age. To keep people forward move the seating forward.



   
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 158
Topic starter  

Thanks everyone for the response, hopefully we can put it to good use! Feel free to contact me if you have anymore ideas [email protected]



   
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