Interesting announcement from ACL

Judy,

What is ACL?

Thanks.

ACL

American Cruise Line, base in Connecticut.

Its already up on Maritime Matters

The Scoop On The Paddle! | MaritimeMatters | Cruise ship news and ocean liner history

Really?

The drawing accompanying the news at Maritime Matters sure looks a lot like the DQ. Why build another new boat when the AQ is almost "plug and play"? Hmmmm.

Wesley

New boat

They wanted a new boat built to their specifications. And I'm guessing the AQ was too big. This holds 140 passengers and is 260 ft. long. It has a lot of private balconies, which the AQ doesn't have.

Exactly, Judy. It also states specifically that they are interested in the Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers. The AQ at Nashville fills the river up. Also, if they build it narrow enough, they can go above Nashville on the Cumberland and up to Knoxville on the Tennessee.

Some might say, "Why not lobby hard for a DQ exemption?" As much as I would like to see that, there are several reasons: 1. The hassle of getting the exemption and costs involved, plus the uncertainty of it. 2. High operating costs. 3. Rooms too small for what folks expect these days. Plus you have the size issue with the DQ, too. She can't go just everywhere.

Savvy Architects?

I hope the architects are savvy enough to try to recreate some of the charm and coziness of the DQ. If they can then they will be successful. The passenger numbers and size of the boat sound like what I have always thought the rivers needed to a successful operation.

Chicago?

Can the proposed boat get past Ottowa to Chicago on the Illinois system?

Don't hold your breath. It will probably have the charm and coziness of a smaller version of the MQ. And there was a battle royal to get the MQ more like an old fashioned riverboat, to no avail. But at least the MQ was steam, a very quiet boat, and easy to navigate. We can only hope that this new boat has just one of the above, but go ahead and toss out the steam option, and place your bets on one of the other 2.

Amenities, etc.

In the prerelease info I got, the key word was: amenities. So I think charm and whatever else one might yearn for from the steamboats will be down the list. Amenities, new passenger target groups wanting larger rooms, amenities, etc. It will be good to see a sternwheeler plying the UMR again though.

Something I posted with the MaritimeMatters article (which they have not posted yet), is that I hope the paddlewheel is functional, and not faux. I didn't see any specifics about that, but I assume a boat that large would not mess with a false wheel, and they would want it functional. I presume it will be diesel with Z-drives (?)... Some sheer in the proposed boat's profile would be nice also...

All of ACL's boats are very plain Jane inside and out, and their fares are quite high. This is the same company that brought the illfated NEW ORLEANS to the Mississippi River System in the early 80's. Berlitz's "Complete Guide to Cruising & Cruise Ships 2010" rates all of their current boats as 2 star which is lower than all of Carnival Cruise Lines' ships' rankings of 3 and 3+.

Power?

If it can be steam powered that would be great...a lot quieter than most of the diesel with hydraulic paddle drives I have heard. The hydraulic motors seem to have an annoying, steady, hum or high pitched buzz that vibrates all the time while in motion.

Anyone else have similar, or different, experiences?

Lexie Palmore;22481 wrote: Don't hold your breath. It will probably have the charm and coziness of a smaller version of the MQ. And there was a battle royal to get the MQ more like an old fashioned riverboat, to no avail. But at least the MQ was steam, a very quiet boat, and easy to navigate. We can only hope that this new boat has just one of the above, but go ahead and toss out the steam option, and place your bets on one of the other 2.

NEW ORLEANS

Funny you should mention the NEW ORLEANS - the first glance I had of this drawing and I thought it looked like a bigger version of that boat - plus a sternwheel. Where did the NEW ORLEANS end up after her brief Mississippi River career?

In answer to Wesley Paulson's question, a boat of any height can get as far up the Illinois Waterway to Lemont, above Lockport, La. The controlling bridge height in the Chicago area is 19.1 feet.

Frank, I sent you an email that was returned. Please email me at :[email protected]

If it is steam powered, I'll probably ride it. If it isn't, forget it. Although I did enjoy riding the Spirit of Peoria last summer and my wife and her sister are going aboard it again on Saturday for the trip to St. Louis. The SoP has great lines, a functional paddlewheel and a great crew.

Looking at the drawing of this new boat, it reminds me of an expanded tow boat with a stern wheel. No sheer or classic lines. They need to get Alan Bates as a consultant if not the actual architect.

-Jim Herron

You're so right, Jim. Its another floating box. A modern boat CAN be designed that looks like an old timer and still has the modern amenities. For example, the Natchez and also the Gen. Jackson. Even I can come up with a better looking boat than that and I'm no marine architect.

I've been holding off, waiting to hear others' thoughts, because I have definite thoughts about this design as presented.
1) Individual balconies. One of the charms and attractions for me, is the open decks and ability to walk around, AND have others walk by, so we can visit. A steamboat cruise is a relaxed (unless, like me, you're running from getting sunset on the bow photos to getting to the calliope to hear/record and film that too) time to do that old fashioned habit of conversing!
2) No sheer, she looks like a bunch of square boxes! All those odd angles are part of the charm of an old time steamboat.
3) The wheel. While the dip is right, the axle mount is all wrong for putting thrust to the hull. If it's built the way that drawing is, it's only for looks.
4) STEAM!! I've yet to see/feel/hear an "infernal combustion" power supply as quiet and calming as steam--and without it, where's the "slightly trembles" the DQ has that is so comforting to frazzled nerves?
Steamboatin' has its niche, and the folks that fit that niche like the cozy cabins! Dare I say that's part of the charm of the trip?? Cabin 338, I luvs you!
Of course, this is all IMHO, and What do I know? (yeah, I stole that line!)
Steamcerely,
David D.

Dear friends,

I don't want to hurt the feelings of anyone, but, please, wake up! ACL is not a steamboat nostalgia company but a cruise ship company. They're not building a boat for steamboat buffs, because being profitable is much easier to achieve with their clientele willing and able to pay much higher rates for the small cruise ship experience. I'm very sure though that the rates won't be as high as with their coastal ships as the rates for the Queen of the West are also lower compared to the coastal ships (though by far not low enough for everyone to afford).

Let's face it: There are much more potential customers out there who don't care too much about sheer and steam but have $3.000 available to spend than there are steamboat fans. When a company has the choice between two options 1) big audience with a lot of money vs. 2) small, price-sensitive audience -- why should this company choose option 2? As a share holder I'd grill them on the next meeting for such a decision.

Let's also face another fact: The cruise ship hardware and crew to some extend causes the same fix cost for the company, what ever concept of cruising they have. What makes the difference are the amenities. Amenity X costs 100 dollars to offer per day, but you can take 200 dollars from your customers for using it. That's where the profit for a cruise company comes from. Passengers sitting on the sun deck watching the landscape pass by don't spend money. And even if some passeigers are not using the amenities heavily, they're still (miraculously) willling to pay a higher rate for their cruise, just because these amenities are there.

I've been around for quite a while now in the cruise industry since I'm writing about cruise ships for some major German nwspapers as well as on my own cruise blog www.cruisetricks.de (in German) and have talked to many executives from Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, MSC etc. over the last couple of months. Believe me: cruise ship companies are not taking much chances. It's not that the CEO sits down, makes a drawing and decides from his desk how a new-built cruise ship should look like. They know exactly what they're doing when launching a new ship because they're researching their existing audience; they're watching very closely which amenities on their existing ships are working well and where they can approve these; they're sometimes even testing new ideas on existing ships before they build it into new ships etc. Their concern is less the sheer and the good look of a ship but fuel efficiency technologies, air conditioning saving strategies, technologies to reduce the water resistane of the hull to save some fuel to save operational costs etc. Just look at the new Norwegian Epic: Is she beautiful? not at all, she's bluntly ugly. Is she successful? You can bet!

As long as the cruise industry is growing as rapidly as it is doing right now, there is no need to take chances trying out new audiences (and steamboat fans would be a new audience for ACL). They're relying on their established audience and do what pleases this existing audience most. And that's also because marketing costs are much lower to convince existing passengers to try the new boat than investing in marketing and sales channels to access a totally new group of customers. So let's not blame ACL for making a (economically) smart decision.

But anyway, I think we can still hope that the Delta Queen (or any other steamboat) returns to the river cruise market. I think the new boat will even improve the chance of having a true steamboat back on the rivers in the wake of this new boat. It'll draw the attention back to the US Inland Rivers; it'll address cruise passengers around the world and remind them of how wonderful a Mississippi River cruise is. Some of them will want to have the steam experience - and there is the chance for filling this niche with a steamboat. But this increased attention will only come through the marketing and even the pure existance of the new ACL boat on the Mississippi.

By the way: What I've heard the paddlewheel will be the main propulsion of the new boat and additional diesel engine propulsion will be available when needed in certain river conditions.

Franz

P.S.: Just in case you're in doubt: No, I'm not giving up the idea of steamboating. Not at all. I still love it more than anything else besides my wife and daughter. But I'm also trying to be realistic; and, yes, I also want to be fair to ACL.

Your take

Unfortunately Franz, I have to agree with your rationale. But there is one line with which I take great exception: "Passengers who sit on the sundeck watching the landscape pass don't spend money." I have bar bills and gift shop bills from my 41 trips that far exceed the bills of most any passenger from my day, and I sat on the Sun Deck watching the landscape go by from after breakfast until going to bed, the one exception being going into the Texas Bar for the 5 PM singalong/show. My bar bill included buying rounds for the band, and all the tipped crew got well more from me than the suggested rate. No, I didn't buy shore tours, but that is the only area in which the boat company did not profit from me. So while I realize your statement was a generalization, it surely hit me hard, knowing how much I've spent over the years, and willingly! As soon as I read the description of this new boat, I knew I'd be experiencing it from the locks and docks rather than from the decks because it is obviously going to be out of my price range - and as you know, I'm not one for the 'amenities' anyway. So be it. Hopefully you and ACL are right that there is a big market willing to spend $3000 or more for this experience, as MAL was figuring too. It will be nice to see an overnight sternwheeler on the UMR again.

Judy Patsch;22516 wrote: "Passengers who sit on the sundeck watching the landscape pass don't spend money." I have bar bills and gift shop bills from my 41 trips that far exceed the bills of most any passenger from my day, and I sat on the Sun Deck watching the landscape go by from after breakfast until going to bed, the one exception being going into the Texas Bar for the 5 PM singalong/show. My bar bill included buying rounds for the band, and all the tipped crew got well more from me than the suggested rate. ... So while I realize your statement was a generalization, it surely hit me hard, knowing how much I've spent over the years, and willingly!.

Good point Judy, and I apologize; it wasn't meant as a hit at all, not even a light one 😉 Thinking it over, I guess you're absolutely right; I overlooked the amounts of money people are spending at the bar *especially* when there is nothing else to do.

Still the rest of what I said stands. I don't know any details of the plans of ACL and of course I was not involved in the research prior to ordering this new ship. I just know from some other major cruise lines how much effort they put into finding out what exactly their customers want or what they're willing to pay for. So I just assume that these features that are being criticised here DO have a reason and are not just there because nobody at ACL knew better. And if it's just for cost savings sake. If you have customers who just don't care about sheer, why spending $100.000 extra (or what ever it costs in total) for having a sheer and all the constructional and practical hassle that for sure comes along with it.

ACL has been in the small cruise ships business for many years and they know their customers very well - not like MAL who just jumped in, didn't know anything about it at all, assuming they can use their Holland-America knowledge and make revenue jump up just because they showed up.

Franz

Franz Neumeier;22518 wrote: Good point Judy, and I apologize; it wasn't meant as a hit at all, not even a light one 😉 Thinking it over, I guess you're absolutely right; I overlooked the amounts of money people are spending at the bar *especially* when there is nothing else to do.
Franz

I can guarantee you that I've never drunk a Michelob at home at 11AM, but when I returned from Prairie du Chien with that wonderful onions with a hamburger from Pete's stand, I went straight to the bar for a Michelob!

As long as we're talking bar here: I drank Planters Punches. Back then they were $2.50, $2.88 with gratuity. Anyway I was on for 28 straight days in 1977. At the end of the trip, the bar staff wanted to come clean - they pulled out a big jug of premixed PP so all they had to do was pour the Myers Rum on top. They said they knew I'd go through it. And they were right. However at that visit, I ordered a Michelob, just for spite!
And don't forget I mentioned the gift shop bill too. Some of what was bought there will be available at the post talk session of Carl Henry's River Ramblings Aug. 21. Donations will go to the Howard Museum. Funny how Tshirts shrink over the years......

m/v NEW ORLEANS

Earlier in this thread Frank mentioned that ACL ran the overnight boat NEW ORLEANS for a while in the 1980s. Here are two pictures of that at the Upper Bienville Wharf. I have better shots.... but where?
You'll see the NATCHEZ in the distance in the first one, and a harbor tugboat lit up in the night shot.