nightmare for the delta queen boats

My Thoughts

My wife and I were on the MQ last September for what would turn out to be her last cruise from St Paul to St Louis. Being in our 30s, we were the youngest couple on the cruise, and attraction the attention of many veteran cruisers.

One such lady asked me one day who was going to cruise on the queens when her generation was gone. As we talked I realized she had a very valid point. My generation, and the one after mine, demand instant gratification and satisfaction. We need to have everything done right away, have to have our cell phones/laptops/blackberrys/ipods, and are always on the go. We need to consume more than we need, and we have very little concern (or respect) for others. Must take care of ourselves first!

As such, a riverboat cruise is the exact opposite of what my generation wants in a vacation. Without the trappings of an all-night disco, room service, internet café, coffee shop, mega-pool, television, and non-stop food that a mega-cruise ship offers, people my age are turned off to the idea of floating down the Mississippi all day with nothing to do but watch the river go by and relax.

The queens reflect the lifestyle of the previous generation, one which led a simpler lifestyle and was able to better appreciate taking life a little easier. For a whole week my cell phone rang only once (it was my four year old calling to tell us he scored three goals in his soccer game), used my laptop only twice to send home pictures (once at a coffee shop in Winona, and once at a coffee shop in Hannibal), and only watched TV once (Sunday night football to catch up and the scores). Instead I relaxed, read a book, and watched the river roll by. It was the most relaxing vacation I have ever had.

What I think MAL is trying to do is attract a younger crowd before it's too late. From what I'm seeing and reading, it's a fine line that they are treading. How do you appeal to my generation without taking away the essence of a riverboat cruise? Can it even be done?

I am disheartened to hear that many of the activities I enjoyed on my cruise are gone. Flying kites off the back of the MQ was a riot! We did have an indoor picnic, which was a lot of fun. Every day at lunch there was one southern entrée – red beans and rice, crawfish, gumbo, etc. Every night at dinner there was a different kind of bread pudding – very delicious. I hope they are still letting you play the calliope – that was one of my highlights from the cruise, and probably the only time "It's A Small World" was ever played on one! To me, this is part of a riverboat cruise, and it needs to stay.

Nick-Taylor;4610 wrote:
After reading about what they are going to do to the Mississippi Queen also makes me sick to my stomach.

One of my biggest complaints was the observation deck because it was so disjointed. I thought how nice it would have been to have another outside deck where one could sit and watch the river go by. I picked up a copy of the MQ book in the gift shop, and was shocked to see that originally there were no cabins on the observation deck! Now to here that they are going to be removed – I think that's a great move. If I had a scanner I would scan the picture and post it – it might just change your opinion. The MQ looked 200% better without those cabins on top!

After cruising on the MQ for a week, the MQ disappointed us in many ways. She came across as a tired, worn-out boat that needed a ton of TLC. Carpet was worn, chairs were worn and mismatched, windows were dirty (you almost could see out of the Paddle Wheel Lounge!), cob webs in many spots, rust, paint chips, and various other details. To hear they are spending $37 million just on the MQ – wow! I may have to take another cruise on her just to see a before and after!

Now if they redo the interior of the MQ to the contemporary styling it had in the 80s, then it's time to worry! Trust me – I wish I could scan some of these pictures – the Paddlewheel Lounge looked like a disco!

Paul Penta;4620 wrote:
The MQ was my home last season. I lived in my cabin the WHOLE season (except for the first few weeks).

Paul – Were you on the MQ for the Sep 22 cruise? I'm trying to remember who you were! BTW – nice reply!

If MAL can keep the boats full while maintaining the spirit of a riverboat cruise, more power to them. Let's all hang in there and see how this all plays out!

John

Judy Patsch;4616 wrote: The 3 thin stripes on the smokestack are the answer. Jim Blum had those painted to honor a railroad - Jim, what year was that, 1980 or 81??? Other than that, the big clue that it isn't '86 is the splashboard - it still has the 2 portholes rather than the row of windows. These portholes were replaced in the layup of '83-84 when they tore out Skid Row and made those bathtub suites on the stern, and the windows to improve their riverview.

If that is the case, my guess is that the other boats on the landing are from the Ohio River Sternwheel festival, and they remained for the S&D meeting.

I remember the DQ being in Marietta a couple of times for the S&D meeting -- one of them being 1984 when the M/V FRED WAY was christened by Bee Rutter. I'm sure I have pictures of those times, but I'd have to DIG for them in my dusty boxes and filing cabinets!

hear, hear Judy, nicely put...but I also gotta say hear, hear Paul...

I'd like to add my 1 1/2 cents, just some things to put a little what was talked about above in perspective. First of all, I think most on this board knew that Delaware North had some pretty awful plans, or non-plans as the case may have been, for the DQ before their money problems forced them into the sale to MAL. The fact that the boat is still cruising is quite enough for me and Deb to be thankful, very thankful to MAL. Pat Carr says it best, as she did the whole cruise, something to the effect that "I'm on the river, that's all that is important, and I'm gonna continue until it stops". Second of all, MAL spent a TON of money on the DQ, ignore the paint cost and just think a little about the cost to upgrade the linens, towels and mattresses alone. As my buddy David would say, "wowziers"...Now I can't stand the eagle being gone either and I solved that but refusing to look at that purple and white P of S, but the rest of the boat looks really fantastic, matter of fact I'll go out on a limb here and say she has never looked this good since we started in 2001. I may also get criticised here a bit but I even think the new gloss black paint on the jackstaff and stage boom is an improvement. The third thing is that the crew, and were talking multiple people in different departments, repeatedly told all us repeaters to comment without reservation about ANYTHING we did not find satisfactory. We were told that ALL comment cards were going to be read and studied by the MAL big boys for at least the first half dozen cruises on both boats. Now if my math is right that is more than 3000 cards to scrutinize. The last thing is that I know that at least one "policy" that was changed by MAL is being returned back to the "way it was" after passenger complaint, and no I will not divulge what procedure it was here.

The passengers DO have the power to make it right, directly through comments or through their feet! I think the completion of the first cruise with a new company is a little premature to condemn them. Like I emailed some people, I suspect that some things will change back. I could swear I heard the old girl laughing...she'll show 'em...

My comments on my comment card bordered on being rude. We'll see what has happened, i.e. did they listen to any of us?, when we board in August (or earlier if Deb is successful in her latest round of convincing me we have the money to do ANOTHER one this year).

I think the primary concern by all here is our natural resistance, our fear to changes. But if you think about it...did the Greenline passengers hate the new DQSC name? I bet they did. I for one am thrilled with the skinny but unflattering retractable stack and fat hull on the DQ, they both provide a more enjoyable cruise experience to me, but we have all read the mild condemnations about those "new" items on this board. There is a lot of crew that is no longer working the boats, and that saddens me deeply, but I have changed jobs 6 times in my career. It was OK for me but not them?

I for one am going to give MAL a little bit of a chance. Any change that guarantees the queens continue to cruise ought to be given a chance, don't you think?

Now I just refreshed the page and read John's excellent post. Deb and I too are, or at least used to be ;-), one of the youngest on the boat. We too had the concern about who will fill the present generation of cruiser's shoes in 25 years. But, isn't this the same problem the Queens have had since the beginning of time? I think somehow MAL or any owner for that matter will fill the boats if they pay 100% attention to their customers, especially their BEST customers, and not to their infamous, notorious marketers. Why would today's Generation X with their "toys" be any different than Baby Boomers and their toys? Somehow about 90% of what used to be important to me as entertainment when I was younger, and I use the term entertainment loosely, isn't even interesting to me now. I suspect Generation X will adapt too, and some of them will find the Queens.

And you know each cruise Deb and I see more and more "youngsters" riding on board. Some how the word is getting out...

Yes, Bruno. Ever since she started on the Mississippi River System, the DQ has carried older passengers. But as one generation died out, a new 'older' generation appeared. John is right about today's instant gratification generation, but I hold out hope there are enough people in that group who, like John and his wife, give steamboating a try and will like it enough to come back. I too was always one of the youngest, taking my first trip when I was 27. I brought a bag of books to read on my 3 day trip - they are still unread. And in the meantime, cater to the group you've got with money in hand and wanting to ride the boats, don't run them off. Its great that they have spent money on the DQ, and supposedly are going to make those improvements on the MQ, but also keep in mind "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Fix what needs to be fixed( and yea for removing those supergluedon Promenade Deck rooms) I find it hard to believe that any of the changes so far or dropping of the 'hokey' activities were done upon the advice of experienced regular customers, but done rather on some NW consultant's whim about what 'gold standard' is. Of course changes occur whenever there is new ownership in anything, but it just seems that these are portending worse, rather than better, things for the future of steamboats, especially when you refuse to recognize them as steamboats, but rather as 'boutique ships'. That alone is a huge cause for my concern. David Giersdorf went to Holland America to make/improve its 5 star image, and he's trying to do the same thing here - problem is, many of the moves(food, entertainment, activities) are actually reducing the number of stars from what was already there. I fully believe this is one reason repeaters were not welcomed(before horrible amounts of empty cabins stared MAL in the bottom line), because as one can see from the postings, repeaters DO know the high quality that was already in place, and in some respects it has been lowered, rather than raised. The homogonizing of entertainment, the 2 singers doing the same show every week on every boutique ship, is a good example - no desire to match the entertainment to the boat/region - one size fits all. If those of you on the March 17 DQ trip from NOLA were to hop on an Alaskan cruise on Empress of the North, you'd get 2 different vocalists, but the same show you saw down south. In my opinion, that's not 'gold standard'. This message board was started in the crisis days of bankruptcy, and it played a role in helping DN decide to purchase the boats. Whether anyone from MAL bothers to monitor it now, who knows, but its obvious that there are many people here who are very passionate about the QUEENS, and it is good to be able to share this passion - joyful and fearful both. We've had many great discussions over the years, with many disagreeing stances, without being disagreeable.

I am gonna go out on a limb here, and offer my two cents worth. Judy, you have a point, and we've been friends for a long time. I, too, miss things the way they used to be, but I prefer to think that in the end, things will shake out. Someone might have thought those thin gold stripes Capt. Jim and I put on the stack in 1980 didn't look good at all. I know those before us were appalled at the Dex-O-Tex being put on the decks and canvas removed. I'm sure somebody objected when they moved the wing bridges from aft of the pilothouse to where they are now ("They cut the pilothouse and put DOORS where the windows used to be! Ruined the looks of the boat!" [I can imagine it in my mind]). I personally think the new hull on the DQ detracts from the look of the boat. Interior changes are the same way. But, people still fall in love with the DQ. Last time I rode was admittedly 10 years ago, but I had just as good a time then as I did when I made my first trip in 1972. Each time there was a change, we thought it would be the end of what we loved, but here we all are, still loving the same boat and what it has become. People still fall in love with her. Sharon is not the same girl I married 28 years ago, and I'm not the same guy, but we still love each other. Do we look the same? Yes and no. We're different, but the same. I think what Paul was offering Nick was some friendly advice to a young man. Did I like all the changes made to the baots in the last 30 years? No. But I still love that boat, and the boat still runs.

Bruno Krause;4629 wrote: And you know each cruise Deb and I see more and more "youngsters" riding on board. Some how the word is getting out...

Our teenagers that will be with us on the AQ this Summer for their first cruise ever, have just been booked as the musical entertainment on a Royal Carribean cruise next February. It will be interesting to see which they prefer. My guess is that they won't be able to compare the two, since the big ship will also have 98 of their fellow performers to socialize with, the trip will be half as many days, and they will be working most of the cruise.

DQ Eagle

When I first heard you guys talking about the DQ's eagle being replaced with MAL's logo I assumed it would at least be in a style similar to the eagle. But man! After seeing someone's photo of the MAL logo. That is BUTT UGLY! And you are right in saying it looks like a model car decal! While I'm truly thankful that the boats have found owners willing and able to keep them on the rivers, I share your feelings of loss. What I keep telling myself is, at least the boats aren't sitting and rotting in NOLA. Any color they choose to paint the Queens is fine with me as long as the Queens continue to cruise the rivers. I would rather be having these discusssions about paint and amenities than imagining the boats in NOLA decaying.
Here's the old eagle:

Judy, again wonderfully put, my friend...I agree 110%...

Just to add a little spice to this thread, Deb and I were told that MAL is "monitoring" this forum.

I've posted far too much on this topic, so I promise this is it. Bob, I referred to changes in a previous posting as being necessary. John, yes, its nice that the boats aren't sitting rotting in NOLA and we're complaining about paint jobs (and more serious things too). But let me reiterate one more time: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STEAMBOATS. MAL IS RUNNING 'BOUTIQUE SHIPS'. Doesn't that ring a warning bell in anyone else's brain as to what further changes will occur in the future???? Bob you are right, the boat is still running, in our minds. But to MAL, she is a 'boutique ship', not a boat. What about removing the DELTA QUEEN as the flagship of the company...Doesn't that ring a warning bell in anyone else???First words, then actions. Hopefully the poor selling of cabins will force MAL to adjust some of their attitudes, just as they have already abandoned the statement from last fall when the horribly high new rates were announced: No more special deals! And now we, some of us anyway, are getting a brochure a week with special deals. A steamboat is a unique being - MAL has a 5 star attraction and they don't even know it, or don't care! UPgrade her, don't DEgrade her! punto final.

I know it's only an acronym, but the word "mal" brings up bad connotations, such as "malpractice" and "malcontent". It appears they have already caused plenty of that.

"Paul, like your counterpart posted a couple of weeks ago, you have taken a shot at those who dare care about the boats and see the wrong paths being taken. You both want us to shut up and pretend these trends are positive - pretend they are and they will be, or something like that, I believe was posted."

No one wants anyone to "shut up" (your words). Just try to understand where those who have different attitudes are coming from and, most importantly, don't assume that we don't have deep care and feelings for our beloved steamboats, too. Just because some of our opinions and postings don't conform to the "doom and gloom" (my words) atmosphere that prevails on this forum, doesn't mean they should be intentionally misconstrued.

Paul's counterpart, aka Jazzou

Travis: Remind me -- when you get back to Looey-ville -- to show you some photos I recently found of Homer Denney playing the calliope on the BELLE of LOUISVILLE in 1966.

JohnHamilton;4625 wrote:
Paul – Were you on the MQ for the Sep 22 cruise? I'm trying to remember who you were! BTW – nice reply!

John

Hi John,

Yes. I was on ALL the cruises after the last week in April or so. I was the banjo player in the lounge with my pianist partner, Hoyle Osborne.

Paul

Paul Penta;4644 wrote: Hi John,

Yes. I was on ALL the cruises after the last week in April or so. I was the banjo player in the lounge with my pianist partner, Hoyle Osborne.

Paul

Ahhh, now I remember. One night you were taking requests, and I asked for Drunken Sailor - and you guys belted it right out without hesitation!. Or was that the night Phil was playing? You guys were great - I enjoyed having an after dinner drink and listening to you play every night!

There was also one afternoon you having a sing-along. When you got to the service songs, you asked that if anyone had served in that service to stand up and be recognized. When you got to Anchors Away, I stood up and sang. A lady (who was old enough to be grandmother) at the table next to us looked at me and said, "You're too young to have been in the Navy!" Priceless.

Thanks again for your great music!

John

Don't log on in a day and look what you miss...

In my opinion, I believe MAL is continuing what DN already started...some good-some bad.
Paul, you hit it to those of us who once paid your salary, to buy the boat ourselves, as you said:(It's also a fact of life that he who signs the checks and takes the gamble gets to make the rules. If you want to make the rules, pony up a few milliion and buy your own boat. Otherwise, try to enjoy what is being offered. )
Boatowners sign the checks???...I think it's the customer that signs the check...ask anyone that works on a commission.

I can't recall how many times I told people about my family's DQ ridership that lasted almost 30 years, spanning 3 generations, and the countless thousands of dollars we've all spent...all in trying to get more people to invest & take a cruise!!!! Now I won't...

So am I Negative-Nathan here...you bet I am!!!

I can understand your frustration as an employee whose livelihood depends on MAL and their sucess.

One poster said here a while back, we'll all be sorry for wanting DN to sell out, and I for one applauded that action thinking some positives would come about. Upon reading the reviews so far, I'm glad to hear investment has been made in the boats themselves! That being said, I don't know why so much stock is being invested in the MQ at all. This boat started out as a cluster in the 1970's, and thankfully (or not depending who you are) made my family members to "switch" to the Delta Queen. In the words of my dear late Grandfather...as he lovingly referred to the MQ as a "floating Pinto" or the "Ironclad"...no words like that were ever shown to the Delta Queen, as I'm aware of.

I know about my "lack of positive reputation" with most people here on the message board, painfully well...and folks like my family members, Judy Patsch and alike miss the good times we experienced. I know we can't return to the past, but those of do recall when things were fun, and the good times were genuine, no matter how you booked the cruise or the number of cruises you had already experienced...

And one more thing before I quit this thread, too.

The beloved eagle that has taken up so much space in this thread, with well thought out words, was really in sad, SAD shape when I last saw it, during the Thanksgiving cruise. All the gold leaf "Delta Queen" lettering was badly peeling, some of it already gone. The eagle still looked good but the lettering looked real bad.

So removing the eagle may be MAL's attempt at solving TWO issues, not just the issue that the eagle's image is wrong for them.

See my dream is that the purple and white swan thingie is a temporary replacement after somebody in MAL realized that the eagle was in very bad shape and it was too late to make a elegant replacement before March 17th, or that the replacement was already ordered and was taking longer to make than anybody anticipated. I dream that the replacement is being made as we speak, and my vision is a plain elegant signboard ala 25-30 years ago, pre-eagle...what is up there underneth the pilothouse has got to be temporary, it truly looks very tacky up close...and remember all the other DQ signage is still in place, unchanged.

but then again this is my dream...

THE Sign

Honestly, what's the BIG deal about The Sign? Actually, it cleans-up the lines of the boat. Give it a year, and then it will seem like it was always there. The Greene Line kept the DELTA QUEEN nice and clean. No circus-look, then. It was even billed as the S. S. DELTA QUEEN.

The new owners and the crew are doing their best to revitalize the boats and keep them running. Feed-back from friends on board is that they are often disheartened and discouraged when they read, here, what they interpret to mean that their personal sacrifices and efforts are not appreciated.

My humble opinion is to give the Owners, the Crew, and even The Sign some breathing room and a chance to prove themselves. I vote to shelve this discussion and resume it a year from now and see how things roll-out by then.

More Thoughts on the boats from a Gen X

My wife an I were on the AQ in '97 RT to St. Paul. We really enjoyed the trip, it was a lifelong dream. At the time, we were 26 and 23. It was one of the greatest trips we have ever been on. Best of all, no cell phones, computers, email,etc. It was great worrying about nothing.

I am not sure what to think on the changes coming in the boats. One of the things we really liked about the AQ was it was new, made to look old. I have built model steamboats all of my life, and read countless books on the subject. I have never seen blue filligree on any steamboat period. Pulling off the gold emblems on the AQ was a big mistake, it made the boat look more realistic. The blue stripe is really ugly. The only thing I can think of is that MAL is trying to go for the patriotic theme-red, white and blue.

I remember as a kid, seeing the MQ in St Paul in 79 almost brand new. The open upper deck was better than the trailer park.

Here are my suggestions to MAL, for whatever they are worth:

DQ-
Great job painting the boat. From the pictures it looks new! My only suggestion is DUMP THE MAL ON THE PILOT HOUSE!!. The DQ is a historic treasure. Would the curators of Mt Vernon put a logo smack in the front?
Put back the signboard, at least. Put MAL on a flag on the jackstaff on all the boats if the corporate logo is what they are after. Lobby for permanent exemption from SOLAS.

AQ-
Emblems back, paint over blue. Internet access in rooms good idea for those that cannot escape technology. Keep wheel red. Get a family program back, put more rooms on boat and have shorter round trips-say for 3 days. Younger kids are fascinated by the boats, yet young families, myself included, can no longer afford the fares.

MQ-
Dump trailer park on top deck, put telescoping stacks back. Go with same look as those that were destroyed from the bridge ramming incident (pointed crown with red trim) Keep the red on the back windows, with the same signboard colors.

I have been to the St. Paul landing for almost every docking since the early 70s. the one thing that I always hear is the high cost. I think if the trips were kept shorter, the crowd would get younger to keep a supply of passengers for the future. For 2 3 night trips a week, the passenger capacity would double, especially in the fall on the UMR.

I have to use technology extensively with my job. I am starting to see rebellion among my colleagues. No more laptops, blackberries or cell phones on vacations. All in all, I am happy the boats have a home. Hopefully MAL keep the boats in the niche they once were. That is what set them apart from the others.

Tom

Hello Shipyard Sam,

I wouldn't have a problem with the sign, but I wish it was darker/bold. Like the Eagle was 3D, it would be nice if this was too. If they keep this, like you said, this time next year, I will be used to it and the red white and blue AQ. 🙂

I am just hopeing that MAL doesn't remove the golden Mississippi Queen sign on the front top of the MQ's pilothouse.

Picture of what I am talking about