Paddlewheel dredging

Aaron: I've seen Mike Fletcher use his diesel screw push boat (for his shantyboat) at Big Bone Boat Dock to clear out the silt. To a degree, it did work but they used a clamshell close to the bank...there being some distance between the stem of his boat and the prop. Before they did this, I often ran MISSIE aground on that nice three-wide ramp if I used either of the two outer lanes. But, alas, he and Boat Dock Joe are not there now. Cap'n Walnut

Tug Boat Dredging !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
Tom , thanks for your posting on this topic and although I have never participated in or witnessed the actual dredging of any body of water by a paddlewheel , I have seen first hand actual dredging by harbor tug boats !

Between New Orleans and Baton Rouge there are nine grain elevators and all are designed and constructed where basically there are the administrative buildings and silos on the shore side of the levee and on the river side is the dock where the ships are moored on the outside of the dock and load all manner of different grains that are eventually shipped to all corners of the world . Now on the inside of all these docks is a relative narrow slip where the fleet boats bring in the loaded grain barges to be unloaded by giant buckets on a conveyor belt and then the grain is transported to the silos where it is weighed and graded .

These slips that the fleet boats use to bring in the loaded grain barges all have a propensity to silt in and literally create havoc for grain barges to be brought in and then unloaded . Imagine the major consequences and ultimately the domino effect if the loaded grain barges cannot be unloaded by the respective grain elevators .

The problem is further aggravated by the fact that these slips are simply too narrow for a conventional dredge to be placed into position and then used to dredge or scour out the bottoms of these same grain elevator slips .

So , many of these grain elevators are now using and employing the harbor tug boats , and not the fleet boats , to go into the slips , secure themselves to the bulkheads and then simply start running their engines at various speeds and steering their sterns in different directions to create an artificial current to flush out the sediment that had settled in and congested the interior slips at these major grain elevators .

Now , you may ask , if these fleet boats are routinely passing in and out of the grain elevator slips with the loaded grain barges , why do they not create enough water current and pressure to flush out these interior slips . I believe the answer for that is first of all the harbor tugs generally lay much deeper in the water , they have larger screws ( propellers ) and they have greater horse power to create more current to scour and flush out the interior grain elevator slips . Furthermore , the fleet boats that service these grain elevator slips come into the slips on a " Slow Bell " and only enter into the lower side of the slip . The loaded grain barge is placed into position , then unloaded and then when empty it is literally pulled out of the slip by a wire rope on a pulley system . So , the fleet boat never actually passes through the entire interior grain elevator slip and the grain barge comes out on the upper side of the slip in an empty condition and so there is no pressure or force to keep the interior slip scoured out and consequently the slip tends to fill in .

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

AJ Richardson;28071 wrote: There have been a few photos published in the Reflector over time of steamboats "dredging" areas of narrow rivers, particularly the canals on the Muskingum. I've often wondered how effective the paddlewheel dredging was? I'd also assume that this was not done at the request of the Government but more to keep the rivers open for navigation. A couple years ago I was on the Valley Gem on a trip to Stockport and the Gem was used much like a bulldozer to dig a hole in one of the canals enroute to Stockport that had silted in.Are such things done today with propeller boats operating on narrower rivers like the Gnaw,Tennesee, Cumberland, Green, etc? And if so is the technique similar to the old days where they would tie a line to trees on opposite banks and use the capstan to hold the boat in the center of the channel.

Thanks for any insight!

Aaron

Ted: Your telling of them being tied-off and running the engine up and swishing back and forth with the rudder nails just what Mike did. Cap'n Walnut

Thanks Tom and Ted,

Tom I remember seeing pictures of Mike prop washing the boat ramp. I've also heard Shipyard say they have used the Z drives on GVII to scour out under the boat, not sure if they also used the wheel as well.

Thanks for the responses, I am sure there is more to discover about these techniques.

Aaron

Aaron,

When aground on mud or sand with a sternwheeler, it is very common practice to back the wheel and feather the rudders from side to side to excavate the mud or sand under the boat. I guess you could call this dredging to break free! We used to do this all the time on the DQ and MQ. One time down around Shawneetown, IL the MQ was VERY hard aground and we used the wheel, the rudders, AND the bow thruster at the same time. It took almost 45 minutes to get her free...but, all that twisting worked. I still never figured how in the world we were aground at midship. On the river some pretty amazing things can happen!

Travis

Sometimes That Works & Sometimes It Doesn't !

Greetings From New Orleans !
Travis , sometimes that maneuver works and sometimes it simply does not !
Unfortunately , and I speak from experience that sometimes when you back your engines , the current that is created will only make the situation worst by flushing more sand and silt under the stern of the vessel !

The trick is to first locate where you are aground and then make the necessary maneuvers to literally twist off where the vessel is aground .

Yes , sometimes you can literally back off from being aground but sometimes the amount of success you have is determined by the composition of the material you are aground in .

For example , if you are aground in only sand , in all likelyhood with a bit of luck and the appropriate twisting maneuvers you can usually back off without too much delay and assistance from another vessel

However , if you go aground in a muck or a mud bottom , a suction is created and now your in a whole new ball game ! Due to the composition of this muck or mud botton a suction is created and your only hope of getting off aground is to use everything at your disposal , including the use of other vessels to help twist your vessel and to literally break the suction that has been created ! WHat really helps is if you can either ballast or shift your water or fuel to the opposite side of the vessel that you are aground on , inorder to literally lighten the draft on the aground side !

Running aground is NOT a good thing to happen for obvisious reasons but it does and will happen if you are out here long enough !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Travis Vasconcelos;28105 wrote: Aaron,

When aground on mud or sand with a sternwheeler, it is very common practice to back the wheel and feather the rudders from side to side to excavate the mud or sand under the boat. I guess you could call this dredging to break free! We used to do this all the time on the DQ and MQ. One time down around Shawneetown, IL the MQ was VERY hard aground and we used the wheel, the rudders, AND the bow thruster at the same time. It took almost 45 minutes to get her free...but, all that twisting worked. I still never figured how in the world we were aground at midship. On the river some pretty amazing things can happen!

Travis

The art of running aground

The bow was probably drawing less water and rode over the bar until the part of the boat that drew an equal amount of water as the depth of the bar met, and brought everything to a halt.

Going Aground ** !

Greetings From New Orleans ,

Well , there is just no other way to say it other than " Going Aground Really ** " !

Not only is it a major embarrassment within the entire maritime community but then comes the reports to ALL the " Powers That Be " including and not excluded to the Coast Guard , the respective attorneys and in my case to the NOBRA , Board Of Examiners !

During my career on the river , I have witnessed other vessels and yes , myself go aground and had to then deal with the repercussions of such an unsavory event . Trust me , it is NOT a good thing to happen and when it does , you just have to make the best of it and more importantly learn from it !

Having said that , when one does go aground , the incident can turn into a learning experience and gives you the opportunity to try any number of new and creative maneuvers , with or without the assistance of assist tugs !

In the pictures below are a few shots of a south bound tow that went aground just below 81 Mile Point , on the point side , when he cut the point too close ! Unfortunately , the Pilot that was at the sticks when this occurred had to enlist the assistance of two local Fleet Tugs to help him with his tow and to help him get his boat off aground ! Now , what eventually worked for this Pilot , was the removal of part of his tow by the assisting Fleet Tugs and then with a lighter tow , he was able to eventually twist and shove his remaining tow off the sand bar below 81 Mile Point !

Going aground on the river is unfortunately a fact of life and sooner or latter , all of us have experienced this and as with everything else that life has to throw at us , all you can do is to learn from it and take every precaution so as it does not happen too often again !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Ted Davisson;28107 wrote: Greetings From New Orleans !
Travis , sometimes that maneuver works and sometimes it simply does not !
Unfortunately , and I speak from experience that sometimes when you back your engines , the current that is created will only make the situation worst by flushing more sand and silt under the stern of the vessel !

The trick is to first locate where you are aground and then make the necessary maneuvers to literally twist off where the vessel is aground .

Yes , sometimes you can literally back off from being aground but sometimes the amount of success you have is determined by the composition of the material you are aground in .

For example , if you are aground in only sand , in all likelyhood with a bit of luck and the appropriate twisting maneuvers you can usually back off without too much delay and assistance from another vessel

However , if you go aground in a muck or a mud bottom , a suction is created and now your in a whole new ball game ! Due to the composition of this muck or mud botton a suction is created and your only hope of getting off aground is to use everything at your disposal , including the use of other vessels to help twist your vessel and to literally break the suction that has been created ! WHat really helps is if you can either ballast or shift your water or fuel to the opposite side of the vessel that you are aground on , inorder to literally lighten the draft on the aground side !

Running aground is NOT a good thing to happen for obvisious reasons but it does and will happen if you are out here long enough !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Thanks to all for the posts, very interesting reading material. Something else to go along with the going aground topic that I've been curious about is in watching the boats above Markland waiting for lockage southbound I've notice that tows are backing at an angle into the bank more so now then trying to hold position off the lead barges. Obviously this lends itself to working off the bank and heading straight down into the lock but have not seen this done up until recently. Is this commonplace while waiting for the lock? Thanks to all for your comments.

Aaron

I don't know what the stage of the Ohio just above Markland is right now, but it can't be much. When awaiting lockage downbound, it is customary for tows to back in, so they don't have to turn around (twice!). When there is very little or no current, it is hard to get the whole thing to lay in flat on the bank...they back the stern in, but there's really no current to hold the whole thing flat on the bank, so they must hold the stern in harder. Since there's no current running down the side of the tow to hold it in flat, the whole thing gets sideways. Current, when used correctly, is the pilot's friend.

Back in the old days before any of us were alive to witness the methods steamboats on the Missouri river at least tried to load the boat so the bow drafted more then the rest of the boat. this helped to keep the boat from running up on the bar. Then with luck they could wiggle off. and send out a skiff to look of more water. If no deep water could be found they pulled to the bank off loaded about half the cargo and with the lighter draft sailed over the bar or grasshopped over it. found a good bank and unload the the rest of the cargo and dropped down and picked up the cargo they left behind and then over the bar and re loaded. You deckhand don't know how lucky you are not be roustabouts loading firewood and unloading and loading cargo just to get up the river. I have heard of one boat got on a bar couldn't wiggle off but set the passengers and crew to walking from one side to the other rocking the boat uintill she worked her self free.

On the San Joaquin in California some time before WWII a levee broke and flooded a large area of low laying delta fields. To get much of the water out they brought up three old steamboats and placed them just so in the gap and came ahead on the stern wheels pushing the water out of the fields. With the water out the boats were stuck in the fields and there they remained until at least 1963 when I was with the Oakland Museum and we visited them to see what we might salvage for exhibits. not mush was left we did get some cabin name plates. and photographs. The engines and boilers had been removed and the hulls and Cabins had been used to house migrant field workers.

Fascinating story, Carl! I remember Capt. Wagner using a very similar method, o more than once, to get the DQ off ground at a landing-- we were aground on the head, and after unsuccessful attempts to back off, Wagner had everyone on board go to the stern to get the weight off the head and make the wheel dig in deeper. About 3 minutes later, voila! off we came!

I have posted before that I saw the AVALON do that in Cincinnati about 1954 or so. They lay above the Suspension Bridge on the Cincinnati side...below the Greene Line Wharfboat methinks. They took aboard some truckloads of oil and loaded a trip for Coney Island. I din't have enough money to go. When they attempted to back away, the stem was firmly on the granite paved bottom. When backing full astern they churned up lots of foul-smelling muck. No luck! A little guy then herded all the pax aft (Doc Hawley?) and they had at it again and finally made it. I don't remember, did they have a calliope in those daze? If so, what was it? Cap'n Walnut.

Carl & Bob , Great Stories !

Greetings From New Orleans !

Carl & Bob , great stories and Carl would you have access to or could tell us how to see those pictures ??

That story reminds me of one that Capt. Howard Tate told when a levee broke during the 1927 flood and he took his steam tow boat through the levee on a search and rescue mission for traped survivors of the flood !

On a related story , last night on the National Geographic channel , there was a show on the steamboats of the northwest that serviced the Klondike River during the great gold rush !

What was really impressive about this show was the fact that one such steamer , the A J Goddard , was partially constructed in a small community called Dawson , and the majority of the metal and iron work such as the boiler was packed in by mules over a mountain pass and then re-assembled on the Klondike River .

What made this program especially interesting was the fact that the Str. A J Goddard capsized on the Klondike River but with divers and all manner of electronic devices , the ruins of the A J Goddard were found and photographed !

Furhtermore ,over the course of Gold Rish , a number of river steamers were constructed and operated on the Klondike River and some were actually plush and luxurious by anyone's standards !

It was a great program and what also impressed me was the fact that for the most part these river steamers were very crude and elementry in their design and construction and had to function in a very hostile marine environment with rapids , no buoyed channel , no vhf radios , no electronics and no Coast Guard ! Well , maybe it was NOT so bad after all !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Bob Reynolds;28144 wrote: Fascinating story, Carl! I remember Capt. Wagner using a very similar method, o more than once, to get the DQ off ground at a landing-- we were aground on the head, and after unsuccessful attempts to back off, Wagner had everyone on board go to the stern to get the weight off the head and make the wheel dig in deeper. About 3 minutes later, voila! off we came!

BELLE of LOUISVILLE at Cincy

Several years ago when the BELLE OF LOUISVILLE and the BELLE OF CINCINNATI made a side by side trip from Cincy to Madison, the BoL's bow was aground. Capt. Kevin Mullen suggested the passengers go to the stern, and Nelson Jones came over with the J.L. LEWIS to give us a nudge and we were underway.

The Str. A.J. Goddard

Greetings From New Orleans ,

This is a shot of the Str. A.J. Goddard , the " Ghost Ship " that ran the Klondike River during the Alaskan , Gold Rush .

The shot is from the National Geographic web site and was entitled the
" Ghost Ship " that was re-constructed and operated on the Klondike River .

What impressed me with this famous steamer was the fact that all its metal parts including the water tube boiler was disassembled and literally brought by horse and sled over a snow covered mountain pass and then reassembled and placed into service near a small community called Dawson on the Klondike River !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Ted Davisson;28149 wrote: Greetings From New Orleans !

Carl & Bob , great stories and Carl would you have access to or could tell us how to see those pictures ??

That story reminds me of one that Capt. Howard Tate told when a levee broke during the 1927 flood and he took his steam tow boat through the levee on a search and rescue mission for traped survivors of the flood !

On a related story , last night on the National Geographic channel , there was a show on the steamboats of the northwest that serviced the Klondike River during the great gold rush !

What was really impressive about this show was the fact that one such steamer , the A J Goddard , was partially constructed in a small community called Dawson , and the majority of the metal and iron work such as the boiler was packed in by mules over a mountain pass and then re-assembled on the Klondike River .

What made this program especially interesting was the fact that the Str. A J Goddard capsized on the Klondike River but with divers and all manner of electronic devices , the ruins of the Str. A.J. Goddard were found and photographed !

Furhtermore ,over the course of Gold Rish , a number of river steamers were constructed and operated on the Klondike River and some were actually plush and luxurious by anyone's standards !

It was a great program and what also impressed me was the fact that for the most part these river steamers were very crude and elementry in their design and construction and had to function in a very hostile marine environment with rapids , no buoyed channel , no vhf radios , no electronics and no Coast Guard ! Well , maybe it was NOT so bad after all !

Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
WA-4141

Ted
I don't recall seeing a picture of the three boats in action, I am sure I took some pictures when we visited the boats. If I have any they have not seen the light of day for many many years. So the Best bet to find pictures is the History Division of the Oakland Museum, in Oakland Calif.

One interesting feature of one or more of these boats was a false keel that was laid up of solid timbers from the keel to the main deck. I don't remember hog chains but then I was not into river boats then like I am now.

The Missouri River stories came from books and articles I have read about travel on that River.