Passing encounters

Where is Ft. Parker? Good subject, steamboating in Texas, which is a total unknown to 99.999% of Texans and 100% of the rest of the world. There are lots of photos, even if you don't get the model built.

Never mind. I looked it up (Old Ft. Parker). Thought it might have something to do with Quanah. Why have I never heard of it??? Quanah,Texas, is on that beaten path between Texas and Colorado, which I've sailed through many times.

Old Ft. Parker, between Mexia and Groesbeck is where Quanah's mother Cynthia Ann was captured. They host all kinds of events both dedicated to history and otherwise. Every December they have a festival where all the various groups are invited; buckskinners, military re-enactors, Indians of several nations, dancers and singers of variious kinds, traders, craftspeople, history interpreters, etc. etc. Wed thru Fri they have history demonstrations which the area schools bring kids to. Fri thru Sun the general public comes. They really need the steamboating added to the mix. I've been thinking about puting my Steamboating in Texas presentation in a form suitable for that venue for several years, but until recently was usually tied up with a Scout troop or other business that got in the way.
The weather is usually lousey, but the people are uniformly interesting.

Most, if not all, of the photos I have access to on-line or in publications are copyrighted or otherwise use restricted. Do you have any idea whether permission for use for non-profit educational uses is ever granted with out incurring a heavy purchase or use fee? What would be the usual process for obtaining such permission? Since I would (will) have to put the display together out of my own pocket, I will have to limit the expenditures to get it done. In the past I would have done drawings for the purpose, but my vision is now so bad that I can hardly write legabliy, no less produce decent drawings. Enough of the folks on this board have been involved in publication and educational programs that there should be considerable expertise here. Would some of you be so kind as to share your knowledge?

If you are not doing this for profit, I don't think there is a problem. In fact, when I had my river museum in Jefferson,for which I charged a measly admission, I didn't bother asking permission of anyone. I simply slapped magazines, books, photos, etc. on the copy machine and blew them up to the size I wanted. A majority of those photos are from about three major collections, and I can't imagine them charging anything unless you get a print from them directly. I got a photo of every known Texas steamboat of which there was a photo available, and paid not one nickel for permission. None of those photos was obtained on line, either. Most were taken from the S&D Reflector, or, indirectly, Tulane Library and Cincinnati Library. Then assorted books. How can old steamboat photos be copyrighted? All of the photographers of those Texas boats are as long gone as the boats they photographed. So who is yanking your chain for $$$?

Just being careful, Lexie. There's way too many lawyers and litiguous people around. The UW La Crosse online collection and several others are clearly marked as Co not Use or Copy without Permission. You say you have photos (or drawings) of all the Texas boats that are known to have been photographed? I have quite a few, but not by any means all. Is there anyway that we can compare lists?

You have touched one of my raw nerves. Museums and libraries seldom or never BUY anything, but depend on donations of artifacts, photographs and records. Some sort or classify them, many bury them in vaults or back rooms untouched. They do not create anything, but they claim all the rights of the creative efforts of others. Photographs that have been in the public domain for as much as a century are claimed as their own. Once copies are in their hands they charge fees for searching, usage, printing, postage and handling amounting to fifty dollars or more per picture.

There are expenses involved in storing, finding and printing, but pro-rated with the other costs of running a library they are nothing. A search fee, for example, pays for fifteen minutes of a minimum-wage employee's time, yet libraries want $10.00 to $40.00 for that.

But rest easy. In order to litigate they are obliged to provide proof that the work in question came from their collection and that, somehow, the user profited at their expense. Then, if they sue, the attorneys get the money.

It would be fun to set two institutions against each other to prove their claims on one picture that both have copies of. Captain Jim Howard's photograph collection is in at least two institutions, both of which claim exclusive rights. No doubt a third or fourth institution has parts of it. Many of them have been published again and again in books and magazines.

Right. If you have looked at any number of books published about the subject in the last 50 years, you see the same photos popping up time and time again. In the past, my best source was the S&D Reflector. Do you think Fred Way would have wanted a stipend for me to Xerox a picture in that magazine? He had a vast source of photos and would give credit on occasion if the source was not him. I hate to think how insulted he would have been if I had offered to pay for using those photos. Times have changed. Sooo, Hank, if you want to get around the cock and bull, get all the back issue of Reflectors or just the ones with the appropriate photos, and go to town. It would be a very worthwhile investment, if you don't already have them. Which you probably do. If you don't, let me know, because I do.

Tell me what you have. If you want to email me a list, send to [email protected]
Most of my stuff is still buried, but I can probably remember. Meanwhile, I will excavate. It's not that many, actually. To die for is a photo of the Mittie Stephens. I did paintings of the Mittie, base on her description, which you can use. Don't use any other artist's rendering of the Mittie as they are wildly inaccurate.

I remember seeing your painting of Mittie Stevens. I'll have to pull the names of the boats for which I have photos, drawings, or links to either out of my database. I'll do that and mail you a copy. It may take a while; my Red River database has somewhere around 1700 boats and I have, as does everyone else, a lot going on right now. I have started to put together an outline of what might be included in a display for Ft. Parker (or other places and uses).

That's ok. Take your time. I'm about to have a meltdown just trying to get stuff in the mail and to its destination by Christmas. Ho, Ho, Ho.

Preach it Brother Alan! I can attest to the fact that the Howard Steamboat Museum does NOT have funding to purchase artifacts and we depend upon the kindness and generosity of donors. At the same time, we are happy to share and do not ever attempt to bankrupt those who request a print of a photograph or need some information xeroxed.

Just this week I visited the website of a library to find that they have again raised their already exorbitant fees. In an age when technology makes it possible to scan and print a photo in less than five minutes, there is NO reason for it to cost $60 plus the additional fees they conjure up. Several years ago this same institution sent some xerox copies (for a hefty fee, of course!) and wanted to sell me a photo that had come from MY collection and which I had shared some years ago with the person whose collection now resides in that library! Such practices do NOT encourage research, they stifle it!

Bert Fenn had the right idea. Sell your collection and put in back into the mainstream where it will be available to appreciative collectors -- not hoarded where it will only be available to the wealthy who can afford to use it!

Let the people who believe say AMEN!

AMEN Brother Keith!!!

I have photos, Recordings and Videos in collections of libraries as well and have never been charged a fee for copies (I never requested them). However, I have been approached when I have lent the materials to others about copyright infringement! I told them where they could take their infringement case because they'd have a tough time proving their case when I have the negatives! I don't think I have to mention the name of the institution...but, most on here know the story well enough from my telling it and already do!

Hallelujah, Brother Keith!

I had a wonderful time back in Texas, and it just amazes me how threads cross. I started volunteering at Old Fort Parker back in 2001, and basically spent most of my free time out there helping the director who is the only paid employee other than a couple of guys who work part time.

The first time I heard about Hank was when my friend (the director) heard a guest speaker talking about steamboating , and when he mentioned the Delta Queen...well, she said my friend (being me) is working on the Delta Queen. The next event where we were both present was an opportunity to meet and share our love of the Delta Queen.

Volunteering at the fort for so many years really was the guiding force that made me decide that I wanted to move out of the office and onto the river where I could share my love of history on the decks of our beloved Delta Queen. My job as the Shore Tour Manager was absolutely the most perfect venue for that.

At the Conferderate Reunion Grounds near there, while I was in Texas, my friend and I were out showing support for an event there. The musical group standing in the cold wet outdoor air, playing for us as we learned the Virginia Waltz and other period dances know Dave and Kathy Barton quite well. Yes, it is such a small world, and those threads cross so many places.

I am so lucky to have been given the opportunity to share in the history of the Delta Queen, and to meet and get to know so many, many wonderful people.

Hank,
I have access to quite a bit of Texas steamboat history and would like to help you. I have a high-end scanner and am pretty handy with Photoshop and Photo Zoom software that allows me to enhance old photos and improve images from publications. Please contact me at [email protected]. I'd like to chat with you.

Thanks Jerry. I have emailed you; please let me know if you don't receive it.

I've been going to Christmas at the Fort since about 1995. Until recently I took my scout troop there every year. They got interested in history and reenacting and that became their favorite trip each year. The gunfighter group would sometimes let some of them particiape in their skits. They loved it. I started going up as a pow-wow dancer, and over the years have gone in many personas- indian, cowboy, gunfighter, Ranger etc. I've met many fascinating people there over the years. Sara, who runs the show, for years did a excellent presentation as Cynthia Ann Parker. That was where i became interested in living/interpretive history presenting. That was, of course, a natural combination with my interest in history and steamboats. She was doing Cynthia Ann at a geneological fair where I was doing steamboating, which was what Jennifer heard about. Now that I do not have a troop, I'm free to pursue the steamboating presentation.