Rumors about modernizing boats

Hello Marian,

My oh my- will this ever openup discussions!

I have absolutely no facts just speculation. If they are planning an extended layup of the MQ, it may be because they are still having trouble filling 3 boats. Also, the MQ (and to a lesser extent the AQ) was in Delaware North's plans when it decided that they needed to attract families. The boats do provide family fun but in a step back in time way rather than with the latest in high tech toys.

Having TVs and telephones in every room can be viewed a few ways. The teenagers who would rather watch TV than the river may be sitting in the room. The telephone could also be viewed as a convenience although with today's cell phones, I can't even see phones in steamboats rooms as good emergency measures. Personally, I think the company wastes its money by putting those amenities in the rooms. But perhaps their market research is telling them differently. Some marketing guru might have sold them the concept that the boats will be filled if they offer the same bells and whistles as cruise ships. Personally, I don't buy it.

I think I speak for the vast majority of participants on this forum when I say- that is not how we want to go steamboatin' up and down the river.

In any business, it is impossible to please all the people all of the time. But, the boats are not really broken and don't need to be fixed. The fact that profits have not been huge in the past 10 years can be attributed to many many factors. But I would rather see (yes I am biased) a better pay and benefits package for crew before spending money on televison and electronic equipment. What's next? Electronic slot machines? Video Games? Canned music? Buffet meals? (I am not knocking buffet meals but for handicapped and elderly, buffet meals are a nightmare.)

The dream of riding the boats is the step back in time. That unique quality along with the best service in the industry (bar none) - that is what should be and could be filling up the boats.

I did not bring up the price break because I have very mixed feelings on that. Personally, I simply cannot afford to ride the boats especially as a single. But, if I could afford them, would I argue as much over the price? Maybe or maybe I would wait for the sale price or ask what discounts are available. But, either way, I sure would not ride the boats to watch TV!

Cheers
Elaine

Egads! My family runs a 1920s resort (with some modern rooms) and one of the "attractions" of the 1920s vacation cabins is the lack of telephone and TV. Those customers who want to be connected can use their cell phones (good luck getting coverage in the Sacramento River canyon!). Hmm, but I do admit that my brother has installed an area wireless system, so you can sit in your cabin and connect your laptop to the web. Hmmm, maybe that would be an OK addition to the boats, no one would see it.
Whew, when I saw this thread title, I thought, "WHAT?? Put a dismal in the hold to run the wheel???? AAAAUUUGH Blasphemy!!!"
They'd better not touch the DQ! 🙂
S'
David D.

As I read your post, another thought occurred to me. When the steamboats decided to market to families, it made more board games available. Perhaps, instead of modernizing, they should increase the library space on the boats. Sitting on the deck reading a good book with glances up to see the sights- that is a vacation!

As for modernizing on the DQ too- well there goes the neighborhood. What would they be thinking!

Oh, I also think they need more jigsaw puzzle space on all 3 boats. I have considered mailing the boat my steamboat jigsaw puzzles except for the one from the Barbara and Steve. I do that one over and over.

Also, I still say spend money on staff because they are part of the package that lure the passengers into being repeat passengers. Sure, a person shouldn't not book just because their friend is not working there. But, on the other hand, doesn't it feel great to go on a vacation where people remember your name and ask how you have been? It is like visiting family without all the problems of visiting family. Well, if the boats want to retain good crew, they have to be good to the crew like any land-based company. If you figure that working the boats is a job is a job is a job- well, that is the mentality that hurts USA productivity.

So, my advise to Ambassador on modernization is forget eliminating old Victorian decore, forget TVs- consider what draws people in- the entertainment, the service, and most of all the river itself. Cut deals with the airlines- deals with the trains- do what you can to get people booking the cruises. They are not coming as an alternative to a Carnival Cruise or a Disney Adventure. They are coming for the adventure of riverboat travel. And about all they really have to pack is a few changes of clothing and their camera.

Cheers
Elaine

Well, if "modernization" is in the plans, how far behind could the big, bad word "dieselization" be? A diesel power plant would no doubt be more economical but, for me, it would destroy all the appeal of these boats. The AQ is bacically a hybrid at best and runs without it's steam engines with no problem but MQ and especially the DQ are pure steam boats. Since DN or the new company got rid of the spare engine components, I've been expecting to hear this would happen to the DQ, if not actual retirement.

If it is retired, perhaps an effort should be made to acquire the DQ by a group of subscribers and operate it under their own flag; a kind of time share organization if enough subscribers could be found. Of course, they would have to contend with the coming renewal of it's congressional exemption. 285 people @ $1,000 per week x a 40 week annual schedule would raise $11,400,000 per year. Would that be enough to buy, operate and maintain the DQ? Could the required 11,400 subscribers be found? If so, that would give each subscriber an effective rate of $142.85 per day, a big savings. Food for thought! Comments and ideas most definitely welcomed.
-Jim Herron

Marian,

On our cruise there were rumors that the MQ will be refurbished while winter lay-up. There was nothing said about how she will be refurbished. During our cruise we received a booklet called "The Mississippi Queen A Magnificent River Lady - A 30th Anniversary Retrospective * 1976 - 2006" by Brian M. Hughes. Let me quote out of this booklet:

"The Mississippi Queen´s sleek, glistening white exterior was punctuated by splashes of green from Plexiglas panels set in selct rails. Staterooms were simple and unadorned, relying instead on brightly patterned bedclothes to provide texture and contrast. Public areas had modern tubular steel furnishings, etched glass and mirrors, and brass accents." and "Guests were dazzled by the profusion of chrome, glass and plushness that surrounded them. Service was first-rate, the cuisine excellent and staterooms, though sparsely decorated, in keeping with the designers´ "less-is-more" philosophy of the day, were still comfortable, if not opulent."

This was 1976. Then..

"In 1988, Equity Group Investments began a multi-year program of refurbishment to the Mississippi Queen, guided by their senior architect Al Luthmers. The first round of renovations cost $2.5 million, and war largely motivated by the comments from Steamboaters who didn´t share the Mississippi Queen´s creators´design philosophy. Brass and chrome were out, no matter how authentic to the boat´s 1970s origins. Passengers wanted the fru-fru and ornament of a good, ol´ fashioned Mark Twain Victorian riverboat. Applying it to the boat´s markedly boxlike design was a challange, but soon the ornate curlicues and pressed-tin ceilings of the late 1880s appeared, the green Plexiglass was removed, and new exterior signage and graphics proclaimed the boat´s historic lineage."

So as we read there, the MQ came out with a modern design and by the request of the passengers it was later changed to the Victorian style we can see now.

By the way I´m asking myself where to put a TV in a cabin. I´d even find no place for a flat screen (LCD or Plasma). And telephones (onboard) are installed already. I don´t think a ship-to-shore service is really necessary with all the cell phones.

To be honest the MQ urgently needs a refurbishment. The interior is not in a really good shape like worn out and stained carpets all over the boat, chair covers are stained and chairs are partly broken and more. You can´t claim the new prices with a boat looking like that. These are the first points mentioned in each critic/review.

I truly hope they won´t change to a modern design which didn´t really work out 30 years ago. And I doubt it´ll work out now. Build in closets, make the beds higher so you can put a suitcase underneath the beds for storage. Get rid of those metal chests of drawers. TVs are not really necessary, maybe a minibar in the AA / AAA rooms. A permanently installed hair dryer would be nice instead of that loose travel size thing. Also a hotel like hang-up storage place for the iron board and iron. There are many small things which would help much.

Carmen

As I recall the ONA (Overseas national Airways) folks had ties to designers in England. The QE 2 (1969) was the latest and best (?) afloat at the time. A lot of the inspiration for the MQ interior came from the QE 2, for example the curved staircases in the Paddlewheel Bar. (the Hinkley brothers)

During the same period Bill Muster (California) and Betty Blake were an important part of the design process. Anyone remember the glass desk in Betty Blake's office on 4th street?

The blue and green plexiglass on the top deck might have been hip for the time, but sure cut down on the ventilation for those sitting on those plastic strip sled chairs!

Look at photos of the hair, clothes, automobile styles of the day and one can get an idea of how the original MQ was outfitted when she came out.

No critizem, no apology, no personal comment on the design, just a few random thoughts on the times and seasons of the late 60's and early 70's.

Carmen
I think they were thinking of hanging the tv's on the walls? I agree the MQ needs refrurbishing, but I hope they leave the brass hand rails and her unique majestic quality. That MODERN word scares me!! Don't try to make our steamboats into cruise ships! Yes, I like the suggestion for the luggage! I suggest to the Home Office that they ask the steamboaters what changes they want on the boats. After all who understands and loves the boats more than us!! Time will tell.
Marian

Marian, Carmen, Jim: All good observations. I remember hearing from Sharon's grandfather that when the MQ was on the drawing boards, a contingent from the company (Muster?) came aboard the DQ to show passengers what the new boat would be. Mr. Shrake said they were literally booed when they showed the slides of the proposed boat. One of many mistakes the designers made was not having promenade space for passengers. Many things have been changed and/or rectified on the MQ, but this is one thing that has not and probably cannot be chaged.

I personally feel TV is not needed. The only possible reason I can come up with is that if they are trying to market to younger people, they might have a DVD library for folks to choose to watch DVD's at night instead of the live entertainment, some of which might not appeal to a younger audience. If so, they'll cut down on those bar bills!

While I personally never cared for the MQ, it, and all the boats, have their ardent fans. I agree with what's been said here that the company should capitalize on those feelings and work toward selling the unique experience of "Voyages to America".

I've sent Franz several pix comparing the MQ before and after the first renovation. He was busy building something for Leonie today, but hopefully will be able to post them soon. As to the walking area Bob mentions, or lack thereof, remember that the Promenade Deck(5) was just that - you could actually walk completely around the boat on that deck. And there was space on that bow to stand and watch lockings, etc. Then in the winter layup 83/84 they superglued those premade 'luxury' rooms on that deck, effectively wiping out any outside viewing areas, save your own veranda. Not only did those rooms cover the 5th deck, but they blocked a view from the lounging area on the roof too... and then there's the view or lack thereof from the pilothouse created by those two forward suites....

Marian,

Sure I thought of hanging the TV on the wall but where??? Regarding the triple inside G cabin we´ve been in there is absolutely no space for a TV. Usually you place it the way you can see it from lying on the bed. Regarding our cabin there´s one open wall space where it would be slammed by the door. The other space you´re looking on is the hanging space for the clothes. Between the heads of the beds there´s a metal chest of drawers and a mirror.

I don´t need a TV in my room and in many cabins there won´t be even space for it. Sure you can build in a closet for the hanging space and there add a TV but that will limit the scarce storage room.

Sure I´m scared too with that word "modern". That´s why I quoted from that booklet.

Carmen

Just out of curiosity, have any posters/lurkers ever been part of a 'focus group' or surveyed by one of the Queens' owners for likes/dislikes/recommended changes? I mean beyond the end of cruise surveys. Typically, they have a corporate idea of what they want to do and then make up their focus group to meet those expectations - remember a couple of years ago the supposedl group from LA that recommended changes which steamboaters wouldn't have???? What good are new customers if you drive away the old ones? And you spend money to do it...

Just to add my 2 cents. Upgrading is fine but lets not overdo it. We don't need TVs, Phones or other fancy plus items. Give us the basics maybe a double bed, increase the room size, wet bar not needed. Entertainment might improve. The big cruise ship are okay for those who like large groups. If they take the MQ and AQ and try to duplicate what the Empress has it might not be so bad. The prices of today compared to by gone days are here to stay until we all see if they can fill the ship.

Here is the first pair of comparison pictures from Judy. According to Judy this aerials were from the I-280 bridge here. The older one was taken in 1985, so the new rooms had been added to the Promenade Deck, but the old plexiglass color scheme was still there.

Second pair of pictures, showing the Grand Staircase and two other pictures, showing the Grand Saloon and the Paddlewheel Bar. Judy's comments: "The Grand Staircase shows the dominance of the brass in earlier days, which was throughout the boat. Notice in the Paddlewheel Bar pix that there are no curtains or drapes on the stern windows, a smart thing since that is the best place to view the river and paddlewheel on the entire boat!
"

Thanks so much, Judy, for sending these pictures from your huge collection!

Franz

MAL is forced to "modernize" the MQ if they want to operate her after 2009. During 2010 the new S.O.L.A.S. come into effect; as she is now the MQ will violate the new laws. All stairs must run from top to bottom with primary exit being outside and there can be no dead end corridors. Perhaps the new company will have to obtain Congressional exemption from the S.O.L.A.S. laws for both the DQ and MQ.

Jim Blum is right on about the MQ when she came out. Both the QE2 and MQ were designed by James Gardner. It is easy to see the similarities when standing onboard either of them. The QE2 though, in my opinion, seems to have weathered the changes of ownership and taste much better than the MQ has.

Frank,

By the way you are quoted in that Anniversary booklet!

Carmen

Frank,

Interesting point- I have a question-

Does the private balconies on the MQ conform to SOLAS laws or hamper them? If there was a fire aboard the vessel, would those divider panels be a help or hindrance?

I agree with the other comments about worn carpets, broken chairs, and not enough storage for clothes and suitcases. That is true on all 3 boats although the carpeting and furniture is reviewed during every lay up with adjustments made as needed.

Also, if TVs in rooms are really a desireable amenity- will the rooms also have wireless Internet access? I still would rather not see money spent on those efforts even if as a crew member, I did buy and watch TVs and scrambled to get Internet access. Somehow, the vacation seems more of a vacation if the technology stays home.

Elaine

Oh how I agree with you. Space is a premium in the cabins. The whole idea of TV's on a steamboat is just plain dumb! Hope someone is listening.
Marian

Good idea Judy. That group should also include impute from the Captains along with the dedicated informed steamboaters.

Funny thing is...the Delta King has TV's!!!

When I spent a weekend on the DK, it was so bizarre to experience a TV in the stateroom and excellent water pressure in a full sized shower!!!

I hate to say it...this all might be necessary on the AQ & MQ...considering the prices where they are at now...and IF MAL adds the SAME amenities the Pacific boats have...to the DQ trio...I see that as progress.
If they stick some cheapo portable TV's and not providing much needed upgrades passenger amenities...
Well you all are intelligent to know what will happen!!!

Hi Robert,

TV's in the room? I'll admit the idea used to bother my sense of "steamboatin' tradition", but having spent a season on the Empress (with TVs and DVD players in the statetooms), I can tell you that it really is not the catastrophe one might suspect at first blush.

One more question, though. How would you improve the entertainment? In the interest of full disclosure, I should tell you that I'm the banjo player in the Paddlewheel Lounge.

Thanks
Paul

Hi Paul,

Rooms on the Empress (or the Columbia Queen) are much bigger than most on the MQ. So I´m just wondering where to put them in some cabins. I think DN had this idea about a year ago and it never realized.

How to improve the entertainment??? I missed the trumpet / trombone. I think that dixieland or jazz without those instruments is not the real thing. And I remember that the guys came over to the Paddlewheel Lounge after they stopped playing the dance music in the Grand Saloon.

Carmen

The DQ has been continuously "modernized". I know that each of us have enjoyed our travels on the steamboats and hate to see any changes because we want each experience to retain it's magic.
When Uncle Sam decided that the country needed me more in Southeast Asia to help spread Deomcracy than the Greene Line needed me in the Pursers Office, Betty Blake said that during that winter (1967-68) they were going to start a campain to modernize the boat. I felt like jumping up and down and yelling "Don't change a thing, it's perfect the way it is!" Had she taken my advice and not changed a thing, today the boat:
1. would not have the Texas bar...it would still be an under used card and jigsaw puzzle room.
2. half the rooms would not have bathrooms....imagine today having a room on the aft end of the sun deck and having to get up in the middle of a cold rainy March night and having to walk outside in the rain,wind and cold to the front end of the boat just to use the restroom.
3.a good number of the rooms would still be the size of a Pullman Compartment with just a sink and an occilating fan...no air conditioning, no place to store clothes except in a suit case or hanging on hangers on the wall.
4. air conditioning through out the boat that on a day like we are having here today, the coolest room would be about 90 degrees.
5. the galley would still be in the hull with an old cast iron, oil fired cook stove that made all the home baked cookies taste like diesel fuel.
6. they would still throw all the garbage overboard in the middle of the night.
7. the electric current would still be DC...don't even think about plugging in a hair dryer or electric razor.
8. the night time entertainment would still be Harmon Mize on the hammond organ and Marty Stoddard performing "Way Down Yonder in the Paw-Paw Patch".
9. all the sewage would be dumped directly into the river.
Not all change is bad and,as has been pointed out, some changes have to be made just to keep the boats legal. I'm sure that the present boat managment will not puposely mess up a good thing.

Jim,

You´re absolutely correct. Every boat has changed over the years. Modernization is not a bad thing at all. But I´m not sure if modernizing the decor from Victorian style to any kind of non-steamboaty modern design is a real good idea (if this is really thought of).

Carmen