Topic starter
06/04/2007 9:07 pm
Steamboating colleagues:
Hate to start a new thread but the interesting dialogue Keith Norrington, Lil Smith kicked off is worth it. Both are correct in their memories and documentation of how the terminology changed over the years. Again, I never heard anything but 'trip' when it came to travels on steamboats. Old family members on the big steam towboats used the term 'coal trip,' or 'delivery trip.' My grandmother always used the term 'trip' referencing trips on old GREENE LINE packets. Language is a strange, plastic thing at times with terms being interchanged according to the situation or need. No doubt the old term 'trip' applied to the scheduled steamboat packet or night boat service between major cities. As Lil knows, when I was a kid around the old GREENE LINE STEAMERS, the old timers [Or 'old heads' in steamboat lingo] used the term 'trip.'
The interview of Capt. Mary B. Greene by Mr. Espy in the cabin of the GORDON C. GREENE, 1948, has her tell of the sidewheel GREENLAND going to the St. Louis World's Fair, 1904 from Pittsburgh. She uses the term 'trip' frequently but in one case the term "pleasure cruise" which it was outside of usual scheduled packet service. This was a pivotal time and from then on the Greene family saw the potential for tourist pleasure cruises.
Brochures for the Str. BETSY ANN in the 1920s uses the term 'cruise' once with 'trip' through the ad. 'Excursion' was also a frequent term of the day on steamboats and railroads for pleasure. In 1924, the L&C LINE introduced the then new big CINCINNATI with fancy folders and brochures advertising 'Spring Cruise, 1924.' Earlier L&C LINE ads for the CINCINNATI and veteran QUEEN CITY, apply the term 'trips.' Keith & Judy know more about EAGLE PACKET CO. ads and brochures than I do for the GOLDEN EAGLE.
GREENE LINE advertised in the first 1948 brochure for the DELTA QUEEN, "LUXURY RIVER CRUISES, S.S. DELTA QUEEN." Times had changed and Capt. Tom and Capt. Mary B. Greene were thinking and planning to the new era. Capt. Tom Greene applied his favorite term "Steamboatiana" in different ways in different situations. The first brochure for the GORDON C. GREENE here states, "A Modern 'Mark Twain' Steamer,'" "Delicious Southern Cooking," "The Trip of a Lifetime," Yes, the term 'cruise' appears twice. Along with, "The Str. GORDON C. GREENE is manned by a crew of seventy persons among whom are Capt. Mary B. Greene, a Cruise Director and a Social Hostess to look after the entertainment welfare of the passengers." The new Texas in this brochure was in the future and for all purposes it was the CAPE GIRARDEAU with just a new name painted on.
As time moved on, and the tourist potential was realized, steamboat companies linked to then emerging 'Tourist offices' [i.e. Travel angencies.], major banking institutions and railroad ticket offices for connections between 'rail and boat.' In time the GREENE LINE signed contracts with the venerable CARTAN TRAVEL CO., AMERICAN EXPRESS, among others, for 'rail, bus, and later, air connections.' The term 'cruises' emerged at that time for marketing. For years the DELTA QUEEN was posted right there on pages in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC next to those for giant, major steamship lines. At times travel agents have taken it on the cheek in their work with the DELTA QUEEN boats from certain quarters. Can't deny the work they do and such agents don't get free trips for nothing--if at all. Where the complaint of 'free trips for travel agents' started I have no idea. Several I know decided if they 'can't lick them, then join 'em.' Today direct web sites with ORBITZ, EXPEDIA, AAA TRAVEL etc, along with many 'home based agents' still feed a large precentage of much-needed bookings to boats, ships, resorts etc.
I have no idea what I've said here, but in essence Keith and Lil and right on and in tandem with their comments.
Well, what do I know?
Cheers,
R. Dale Flick
07/04/2007 1:12 am
Gee Dale- You know lots of stuff : )
I think trips sound more informal but I also think the change over in terms may have happened because of drugs in the sixties. People went "trippin". I do concur that crew use cruise and the number because that is how crew is paid or accurately keeps count for that type of record-keeping.
In thinking on airline terms, we refer to flights with numbers too. Because a trip might indicate the entire itinerary. Thus I could see trips indicating the whole trip on an airline but the segmented parts on a steamboat. That would make a cruise a series of trips to various ports. Or is that excursions?
However, I also concur that using ship for a steamboat makes me think of an ocean liner steamship and not a riverboat.
However, the various sale offerings and planned marketing strategy may be successful in getting the boats filled and that is the objective. So, I will grant some latitude on whether I think the terminology matters.
If I think outside the USA - like the Nile or the Amazon or the Rhine, I do think I would use the term trip and not cruise. But if I was going to Alaska, would I think cruise?
I admit that I am also more a fan of the old fashioned activities and almost hokey (is that a word by the way?) ideas of just taking a steamboat ride up or down the river. I have many funny arguments at home because I tell people jokingly that I have abandon the idea of north, south, east, or west. Everything is either up-river or down-river. That makes life very simple.
Gotta go for now- but this is just fun with words.
Cheers
Elaine
Topic starter
07/04/2007 10:15 pm
Dear Elaine:
Your far too kind in your posting. I know little to nothing compared to the real steamboat veterans on this web. Ranging from 'B' for Bates and ending with 'W' for Way on the alphabet--with scores between. Many of them "were there then, and we're here now." I would never stoop so low as to claim expertise in any area. I like rooting around in old records, 'dusty boxes' here or archives. There are so many areas of steamboat history--which is far from being a precise study--needing research. The business, financial, contract aspect is most calling for attention.
What surprises me are the silent 'lurkers' who never post. They read, click their tongue, and then send a private E=Mail that astounds you with their private collections and knowledge from across the country. This is a great web and I've met a lot of terrific people. Hey, you're no slouch in your writings and knowledge.
Cheers,
R. Dale Flick