Topic starter
03/04/2011 4:22 pm
Greetings From New Orleans !
I would have to imagine that one of the more prominent features and pieces of useful equipment that use to adorn any respectable and authentic steamboat was the Engine Order Telegraph that was found in both the Pilot House and Engine Room .
When I first went to work on the Str. Delta Queen , back in the early 70's , one of my most enjoyable responsibilities was to clean the Pilot House and to polish both the DQ's brass Telegraph and Spitoon ! Even back then , I use to look forward to this task of polishing the Telegraph and could only imagine what stories this beautiful piece of form and function could tell ! One other perk and benefit of this highly sought after and esteemed position of Pilot House , brass polisher was to just take in and listen to all the stories , lies and other related tales from the highly distinguished and honorable Pilots , Masters , Mates and other non descript deck officiers that would hold court in the DQ's , Pilot House !
All these great Pilot House memories from those early days on the steamboats were recently brought back to life when I was in a rather unlikely place , a St. Augustine , Fla. , nautical antique store a few weeks ago ! Sitting in the front window of the store , was an old and tarnished Engine Order Telegraph that I simply could not take my eyes off of ! No , it did not come off of a conventional Western Rivers , steamboat but it did come off of an old Victory Ship that was built on the east coast and was partly responsible for winning the war in Europe .
I guess the years have not been too kind to this old Engine Order Telegraph , but haivng said that , its bells still ring when you " ring it up " and there is still a working light oo the inside to illuminate its faces . What I do find unusual about this Engine Order Telegraph , is that there is a rather unusual fixture and opening on the top of this Telegraph . I am just guessing that possibly this particular Telegraph was either located in the Engine Room or in a lower Pilot House or Bridge deck and that chains came out of the top and went up to an above deck station .
Hopfully some one that is a bit more familiar with this type of Enginbe Order Telegraph could shed some light on this feature but this is my best guess as to the purpose of this fixture and opening .
Now , every time I go in my office and see this piece of history I also see Capt. " Rip " Ware and Capt. Wagner doing their very best to out do one another with a story from their past as well ! Just imagine what stories that Engine Order Telegraph could tell !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
03/04/2011 7:02 pm
Very interesting indeed, Ted. I notice this telegraph is made by Brelco, who also made the telegraph on the BELLE OF LOUISVILLE. You may be correct that this model was in the lower pilothouse of a seagoing tug, with a "crow's nest" pilothouse on top for seeing over an empty ocean barge. What did the owner of it say about it?
Topic starter
03/04/2011 7:34 pm
Steamboats & Telegraphs
Bob ,
Unfortunately the owner of the antique shop did not really have a great deal of information on this particular telelgraph . The best I could get out of him was that he believed that it came off of either a " Liberty Ship " or a " Victory Ship " that he also believed was built some where on the east coast .
Remember , Chief Engineer , Al Bolton ? I remember some of his " War Stories " when he served on one of these fine vessels and I just bet that not only he could tell us how this telegraph was used , when it was used and where it was used ! I rember one of his " War Stories " , of when he arrived in Europe on one of these vessels and when they pulled in the " Torpedo Nets " that were out on either side of his ship that there were live torpedos in each net ! What a way to win a war !!
I just susspect that the opening and fixture at the top was for some type of chain and pully system that operated another telegraph above and on another deck from this telegraph
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
03/04/2011 8:15 pm
Ted: Congrats on your acquisition. I'd guess that it came from the engine room but your surmise about two pilot levels might well be so. There is one similar to it on the internet...same maker...for sale under "Antiques of the Sea". They say it came from a Liberty Ship. A Victory Ship methinks is likely a Hog-Islander from WWI. Their's does not have the hole in the top like yours. I've got a little one (repro) that I always wanted to install on MISSIE. Keep her shiny! Cap'n Walnut
Topic starter
03/04/2011 8:55 pm
Tom , thanks for your posting and information !
Tom , thanks for your posting and information ! I remember years ago I was on board , I think , the Queen Mary , in Long Beach , California and recalling going in the Pilot House and much to my surprise seeing not one but many telegraphs ! As I recall , there were maybe three or four on both sides of the Bridge ! Upon close insoection , the telegraphs on either side of the bridge were NOT , your every day conventional Engine Order Telegraphs but they were for mooring line handling purposes ! Instead of the different Ahead and Astern settings and positions , the telegraph handles made reference to the respective Head Lines , Breast Lines , and Stern Lines for both the bow and stern of the ship ! I can only imagine how this system worked out but I would just guess that this was the " state of the art " equipment for this day and time on these passenger ships . On another note , the glass on both sides of my telegraph's face are cracked and would it be a mistake to replace it with new glass and then loose some of the authenticity of the telegraph in general ?? Food for thought !
While at this same nautical antique store in St. Auguestine , Fla. , I also picked up an antique kerosene , brass , life boat , anchor light as well ! Both the telegraph and lantern were heavily tarnished and believe it or not but the best way to remove and then polish these items is to first wipe them down with tolet bowl cleaner !! Go Figure ! Furthermore , one tolet bowl cleaner that appears to work better than others is Sno Bowl ! It reall does a great job of remoiving years of tarnish and neglect but it is hard on bare hands and I would recomend gloves for this projectif .
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
03/04/2011 10:23 pm
Ted: Thanks for the info on Sno Bowl. I suspect that it is largely dilute muriatic or sulfuric acid but don't really know. And, yeah, gloves are in order...not methyl ethyl awful but not kitten fur either! I replace broken glass in my gauges...I lke to put OLD gauges on my little steamers and replace any broken glass. You can keep the broken stuff if anone cares...after all, you don't know if the glass in there now is original or not. A good glass shop can cut the circles to size quite cheaply...less than 5 dollars here. I got one broken when doing the BOL engine room caper in 2005 and easily replaced it...keeping the water/dirt out.
04/04/2011 3:44 am
Hey Ted this has always been my favorite picture that I took while working on the DQ.
04/04/2011 12:23 pm
Up on the lakes we used Sno-Bowl in the fall to clean the "scum" off the bottoms of our fiberglass boats, after they were in the water all summer. Don't use Sno-Bowl over concrete. It will eat concrete!
Topic starter
04/04/2011 1:34 pm
Great Picture !
Mel ,
Thanks for your post and that is really a GREAT picture ! As I recall , you were the unofficial steamboat paparazi and I wish I had taken more pictures during my tenure on the steamboats ! Thats really a good shot of Capt. Oren Russel and I would imagine that his family would appreciate seeing this as well . Nice shot of the DQ , Pilot House as well and you really bring it all back to life !
You were really recording history as it happened and there is no doubt one day your pictures and a few others will wind up in a musuem for others in the distant future to see and marvel out ! I imagine at some point , if not all ready , we will be referred to as the ancients of steamboaing ! Go Figure !
keep the pictures coming !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
mel hartsough;25292 wrote: Hey Ted this has always been my favorite picture that I took while working on the DQ.
04/04/2011 4:21 pm
mel, I have a question to which I'm sure you have the answer. Why does the DQ's telegraph always seem to have a towel on it?
04/04/2011 4:32 pm
A Piece of History
I checked the web site for the Liberty Ship Jeremiah O'Brien and voila! This is a photo of the bridge, or lower bridge, I'm thinking. The engine room telegraph is similar to what is on the DQ.
Topic starter
04/04/2011 5:00 pm
DQ Telegraph Towel
Greg ,
If you don't mind me taking this one , it was explained to me long ago that there is a two fold answer to that question .
The first reason is that most of the working Pilots's would at some time or another put their hand on top the brass telegraph and the moisture from there hands would prematurely tarnish the brass and secondly , the oxidizing brass would also leave an odor on the Pilot's hands as well . Also , the towel would protect the surface of the telegraph as well so the towel served a number of purposes .
Those were the reasons that I was told and if anyone has another answer , I would welcome to hear it as well .
Greg Weber;25298 wrote: mel, I have a question to which I'm sure you have the answer. Why does the DQ's telegraph always seem to have a towel on it?
04/04/2011 6:01 pm
That towel was kind of wrapped around another piece of cloth that was the right width to fit on the telegraph. The cloth had two channels running thru it on either side and either some cowtail or elastic "bungee cords" were run thru this channel to hold that cloth in place. The towel was wrapped around this cloth so that everything stayed in place when someone put their hand on the top of the telegraph.
04/04/2011 8:36 pm
Hey arent you guys gonna mention the part about sweaty palms and high water?? Funny how soon as you mentioned the piece under the towel I remember that cloth with the cord running through it Bob.
Topic starter
04/04/2011 10:34 pm
Great Investigative Work !
Lexi ,
Great investigative work ! This picture confirms what I have been thinking , that in the older ships , in the Engine Room , there was not only an Engine Order Telegraph , but a complete Steering Station as well . The idea behind this is that simply the ship could be steered more or less remotely from the Bridge or for that matter any other position on the ship if for some reason the Bridge was placed out of commission .
I was on a much newer ship just a few short months ago where the steering system on the Bridge was out of commission and we remotely steered the ship from the Engine Room by having the Mate on the Bridge tell some one in the Engine Room , on the telephone , which way to steer in degrees and how to work the engine , either in the Ahead or Astern position .
Simply put , this was just a redundant or " Back Up " system to steer and operate the ship .
Come to think of it , one time when we were on the Upper on the DQ , we steered the boat much in a similar way . We had a man in the DQ's , Rudder Room and he steered the boat remotely and from orders given from the Pilot House !
I would like to Thank Everyone that posted and commented on this thread !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
Lexie Palmore;25299 wrote: I checked the web site for the Liberty Ship Jeremiah O'Brien and voila! This is a photo of the bridge, or lower bridge, I'm thinking. The engine room telegraph is similar to what is on the DQ.
05/04/2011 3:29 am
Victory Ship Telegraph
Attached, I think, is a shot of the engine order telegraph on the SS Lane Victory. (stolen from their Facebook page). Victory ships were built later in WWII than most of the Liberty ships. The major difference as far as steam propulsion goes is that the Liberty ships had reciprocating piston engines (triple expansion, I think) and the Victory ships had turbines. Both the Lane Victory and the Jeremiah O'Brien make day cruises out of LA harbor and San Francisco, respectively. The O'Brien even went all the way to Normandy and back to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that event. (Coast Guard,etc., were saying that all those old farts could never do it)
In my younger days in San Diego, I had occasion to be on several Navy ships, and those that had "flying bridges" had telegraphs similar to the one Lexie posted from the O'Brien. The bridge had a telegraph like that one, with an enclosed (chain race?) that ran up to the telegraph on the flying bridge, so orders could be given to the engine room from either location. Of course the Navy had a bunch of back-up systems to communicate from bridge to engine room in addition to the telegraph: telephone, sound powered telephone, speaking tube, running sailors.
Every engine room I've been in had the telegraph mounted with the chains coming down from the overhead, and weren't mounted on the deck. Similar telegraphs to those pictured I've seen on the Steam Ferry Berkeley and Steam Yacht Medea, bot at the San Diego Maritime Museum.
05/04/2011 3:36 pm
By the way, the towel was routinely changed. Enough sweaty palms and it could get pretty funky.
Topic starter
05/04/2011 3:57 pm
Funky Towel !
Greetings From New Orleans ,
Yes , Mam , that towel would get very funky ! I know I left my traces of DNA on it a few times !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
QUOTE=Lexie Palmore;25329]By the way, the towel was routinely changed. Enough sweaty palms and it could get pretty funky.
05/04/2011 4:34 pm
More on the O'Brien
This is the engine room of the Jeremiah O'Brien. You can see the telegraph to the left. Also a photo of bridge telegraph showing a magnificent binnacle in the background.
05/04/2011 8:06 pm
O'Brien Engine
This is a photo of the Jeremiah O'Brien's triple expansion engine.