Topic starter
16/02/2015 4:34 pm
As I'm sure many of you already know, there exist several companies that offer a very unique brand of sailboat cruise. On these trips, people pay to participate in the operation of the vessel and be part of the crew.
Although these trips require physical stamina and hard work, I have read reviews that they are extremely enjoyable. The sailing vessels themselves are also extremely historically accurate. It offers a getaway from "armchair cruising" where you can get a sense of how these sailing vessels worked and how the crew lived long ago.
What I am suggesting is that this type of enterprise can find a unique spin here on the western rivers - in steamboats.
Now, there is a certain charm that is unique to sailing vessels such as pirates, salty sea captains, storms, etc. which is a ploy for getting people onto a working ship for fun. They also have the mystique of the high seas and the beauty of the open ocean.
For all of the people that are thinking "who would want to pay to go work on a steamboat for fun," here is the counter argument. Just like the sea has its charm and fantasy to draw people in, the rivers have just as much! We have the allure of Mark Twain, Huck Finn, beautiful scenery, the old south, the aura of steamboating, etc. which is just as easy to market upon.
This spin on cruising also opens the door for the vessel in question - most likely a small one - to be very historically accurate. This means accurate surroundings like hull materials, superstructure, western river style boilers and engines, true paddlewheel propulsion, etc.
Just a thought. Any constructive ideas or criticisms are encouraged!
W.R. Dancey
16/02/2015 5:12 pm
Unique Bsiness venture idea.
Mr. Dancey What an interesting post had thought of this at one time but did not know if it was feasible. I would be one of the first ones to sign up for that type cruisen as I adore ALL steamboats past AND present.You have my vote.Carole Matthews Pompano Beach Fla 33064 COMMENTS? excuse spelling
16/02/2015 5:37 pm
I'd be all in as a patron!
Lemmie drive!
16/02/2015 11:00 pm
Ron Anderson;34165 wrote:
Lemmie drive!
That's the exact problem! Everyone wants to blow the whistle and ring the bell, but clean the toilets...forget it! I for one am too big anymore to crawl into a firetube boiler.
17/02/2015 2:32 am
I wasn't going to say anything here, Frank, but you hit the nail on the head. Toilets have to be cleaned, decks scrubbed (not easy, not fun), carpets vacuumed, beds made, food prepared. The paddlehweel must be maintained, packing glands greased, sewage system worked on (oh, boy, what fun THAT can be!) and the list goes on and on.
"Driving the boat" is a job given to licensed professionals for a reason. How about being a fireman? Oh, wait...let's don't blow the boat up. Run that headline up the hill in Cairo or Lawrenceburg at low water -- about 1/4 mile of rip-rap at a 45 degree angle. Do it in the rain, at night.
Capt. Dennis Trone once told me he shyed away from hiring "steamboat buffs". There was a reason for that.
Topic starter
17/02/2015 4:25 am
Bob Reynolds;34175 wrote: I wasn't going to say anything here, Frank, but you hit the nail on the head. Toilets have to be cleaned, decks scrubbed (not easy, not fun), carpets vacuumed, beds made, food prepared. The paddlehweel must be maintained, packing glands greased, sewage system worked on (oh, boy, what fun THAT can be!) and the list goes on and on.
"Driving the boat" is a job given to licensed professionals for a reason. How about being a fireman? Oh, wait...let's don't blow the boat up. Run that headline up the hill in Cairo or Lawrenceburg at low water -- about 1/4 mile of rip-rap at a 45 degree angle. Do it in the rain, at night.
Capt. Dennis Trone once told me he shyed away from hiring "steamboat buffs". There was a reason for that.
Bob and Frank:
These are obviously some of the first problems anyone would come to think of when faced with this type of business/cruise.
They are problems that are easy to answer, though.
As far as general maintenance of the boat and machinery, that would be taken care of by paid crew members, i.e. cleaning of toilets, sewage systems, ect, ect.
I hold Capt. Trones words in high regard, and wholeheartedly agree with him. Having a bunch of inexperienced steamboat buffs running a real steamer down the river would not be safe. This is why the 'paying cruisers/crew' would be supervised by trained and licensed pilots, engineers, etc. to ensure safety (in the engineroom, pilothouse, etc) along every step of the journey as they work side by side with the professionals (similar to the training of a cub pilot).
As far as the engineering is concerned, I am a licensed steam engineer through the A.S.O.P.E. and the states of Minnesota, Ohio, and several Canadian Provinces. That being said, a boiler is harmless if you have the right amount of eyes on it. There is also a difference between being a "fireman" and "stoker." The role of "fireman" would be given to a trained, payed worker.
Also, I have met many steam 'novices' that have been overjoyed to brush flues, clean ashpans, etc, and get completely blackened in the process.
Work in the engineroom iteself would also be heavily supervised.
As far as movement of the vessel is concerned, it would more than likely be limited to the daylight hours for the sole reason of having well rested patrons and maximum safety. Weather is another issue, but numerous steamers of the past had faux walls that could be put up/removed in response to the weather.
General architecture of the boat is also key in making this type of a business successful. I am not speaking of a grand old steamer like the Tell City,J.M. White, or even the size of the modern Julia Belle Swain. The vessel would be of a more intimate design, such as the Lone Star in LeClaire, IA. This architecture would not only create an informal environment for riverlore, mechanical and navigational details, etc. but would also make the operation of a true coal fired vessel more economical and easier to maneuver. The vessel would resemble something more along the lines of a day - run packet, or even a towboat (for the sole reason of feeling close to the river).
Any other comments or concerns, please ask!
Thanks for the input so far.
W.R. Dancey
17/02/2015 4:49 am
The boat could be a day-runner only, with folks spending the nights on land. Of course this would negate the traditional "chocking a stump." stops.
I spent quite a bit of time down in the engine room on my trips (don't tell homeland security!). But, I realize I'm not the "usual" customer.
Hmm, are we dong a "Tom Sawyer fence-painting" scam??
🙂
17/02/2015 2:55 pm
I must say that I was thinking about the DELTA QUEEN when I saw this and wrote my response. Now that I'm thinking LONE STAR, the idea looks a bit different. My question now is, would there be enough people who'd want to pay to do that? It is interesting.
17/02/2015 6:05 pm
One must wonder if the pocket size diesel tourist boat DOGWOOD couldn't make it?
17/02/2015 6:08 pm
Being crew isn't the same as being a passenger!
"Capt. Dennis Trone once told me he shyed away from hiring "steamboat buffs". There was a reason for that." said Bob Reynolds.
Yes, I laugh when I hear people who are used to paying$$$$$ for veranda suites and all the fine accoutrements now provided on the current boats talk about wanting to get a job on the same. First of all, the previously adoring crew are now your coworkers, and you have a job to do and so do they, which is to please the passengers, not you. That would be a rude awakening to many people I'm sure. Secondly, the living conditions/rooms are nothing like those of the passengers! It may sound romantic to work on a boat, especially an elegant passenger vessel, but you aren't in the elegant part as crew. Many more differences if you can get by those first two! Back in 1984 when the NATCHEZ dining room steward offered me a summer job, I told her it depended on two things: finding a reasonably priced room and getting Doc's OK. I didn't want to put him on the spot with having a friend/buff in the crew if things didn't work out. Luckily they did, and I spent many hours cleaning toilets, etc. (but was never small enough to clean boiler tubes!), and worked weird and long schedules. Carnival season meant 21 straight days of work, sometimes 17 hour days. And as Dan Back wrote back when we volunteered in the NATCHEZ gift shop for Tall Stacks 2006, we worked 6 16 hour days and loved every minute of it! Bob as you know, as a DQ passenger I was 'low maintenance' so the transformation from pax to crew was not difficult. There are many on this board who would also 'crew up' well, but sadly I don't think the numbers are there for any big venture.
Topic starter
17/02/2015 10:50 pm
To all:
As far as interest from potential patrons in such a cruise: that is very much up for debate. It would depend on the structure of the cruise, which I will delve into later on. However, I can say that the counterpart operations on sailing vessels seem to bring about a great amount of interest. The biggest obstacle would be getting the word out that such a thing is in existence.
Operation of the boat would be something close to the following. Say it is a typical day in the middle of such a cruise. The previous day, the boat has steamed to its present location where it is now moored along the bank in a traditional "chocking a stump" style. The crew would wake up and prepare the boat for another short jump up the river (to ensure that the 'passengers' don't become worn out, distracted, and so on.) The 'passengers' would then wake and report to a various position (rotated throughout the journey) for the steaming of the day, whether it be in the pilothouse, boiler room, engine room, and so on. The boat would proceed to steam a relatively short distance up or down the river where it would moor in a similar style.
At this point, the passengers might have time to go off into a town and explore, or some activity to that effect. Perhaps then the crew could set up an onshore campfire or something similar. The night would contain a campfire, riverlore, good food, etc. (on the riverbank next to the boat ) and then the 'passengers' could go to sleep in their onboard rooms. A designated crew member would cover a night watch to make sure all is well with the boat and the machinery. The next day would be similar.
In order to ensure enjoyment for all of the patrons, the boat would only operate in short stints during the morning/afternoon. This makes the 'work' relatively easy so the experience is very enjoyable.
The cruises themselves would most likely be limited to two to four days each. With the rotation of the 'passengers' and the short bits of steaming, the cruise wouldn't be work, but more of a simulation of how a steamboater lived.
Perhaps taking up rooms onshore is another option, but would only increase the cost of a ticket.
If people find work on a sailboat enjoyable and interesting, then there is no reason they wouldn't find the same content interesting on a river steamer. Advertisement would be key.
Like I said in my last post, the vessel would be small, and may be run as a private business or perhaps through a river museum. Just more details.
Again, thanks for the input!
W.R. Dancey
18/02/2015 12:26 am
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can even see other jobs being rotated into this for the pax...the aforementioned work on the MSD (marine sanitation device) if/when required, or a different passenger each night on night watch (with a trained designated crew member, of course).
18/02/2015 5:00 am
Back in 1977 i made two one week trips on the Julia Belle along with some other invited guests. The boat was being taken from Winter quarters in Chattanooga to Peoria for the Summer months - and vice-versa in the fall. A young Bob Reynolds was along too. This invited crew helped run the boat but there were licensed crew doing the important stuff. Some of us (me included) stood steering watches along with a licensed pilot. We also cleaned, painted, did dishes, and other similar tasks and we all had a good time. I think a venture such as Mr. Dancey proposed could work if it was managed correctly, as others have brought up in this thread. One memory from those trips remains in my mind - Denny Trone made the statement "Steamboats are for people who like to play steamboat". I spent a total of ten days aboard the JBS - just long enough to find out how much work is involved in running an excursion boat. It was enjoyable work though, and a real adventure too. I think a lot of folks would enjoy a similar experience as a vacation.
19/02/2015 6:12 pm
Whitehorse
It would be hard to pass up crewing a riverboat.
Here is a video from the Alaska State Digital Archives (worth Googling for more old riverboat pictures and videos) showing crew off loading the Whitehorse c. 1939.
Sternwheeler Whitehorse offloading supplies and mail. :: University of Alaska Fairbanks
08/03/2015 2:22 am
Great idea. Working on a steamboat is a blast, so to speak.