Topic starter
19/08/2008 12:38 am
Hi! You have another newbie! This is a truly fantastic site!
I have some questions, but I must start off by saying that my knowledge of steamboats is very patchy, although your site here is teaching me a lot.
Is anyone here familiar with Florida waterways in the past? I need information about steamboats that ran routes up and down the Indian River on the east coast, from about the year 1890 through the next two or three decades. I am assuming there were logging boats, fish boats, pineapple boats and tourist boats.
I have also been trying to find out if gambling boats were legal at that time and place and if not, did they run anyway? Was the gambling out in the open or clandestine? What sorts of games of chance were played on the gambling boats if there were any?
I would be so appreciative for any information anyone could offer. When I Google all I get is information about current boats and offshore gambling cruises which doesn't help at all.
Were the first steamers really called 'stinkpots' by the sailboat runners? There was some mention of that in my research, and also that the steamer folk called the sailboaters 'windjammers', with both terms being somewhat pejorative. Any idea if this is so?
19/08/2008 1:20 am
Welcome aboard, Kate! the Florida rivers and their boats were different in may ways from the so-called Western Rivers boats, though there were some similarities. I hate to tease you, but I have a little bit (a VERY little bit!) of info on them. The info. is, however, packed away in my "dusty boxes" as Dale refers to them, and I cannot promise when I will take that plunge as I'm busy these days, but I will get to them. The info. I have is chiefly about the Ocklawaha River and Chain of Lakes. I'm thinking Keith may have some info. about Florida boats. Also, in the S&D REFLECTOR a number of years ago, there was a great picture and short article about a big sidewheeler that ran on the St. Johns River, possibly named ST. JOHNS. Though I am a long-time member of S&D, I must confess publicly that I do not have the indexes to the REFLECTOR, which Capt. Alan Bates so painstakingly compiled. He usually gets on in the morning, and may be able to help you find this article. Good luck!
19/08/2008 2:06 am
Kate,
For everything you ever wanted to know about Fla. steamboats but were afraid to ask, contact Edward A. Mueller (pronounced Miller), 4734 Empire Ave. Jacksonville FL 32207. Ed has written many excellent books on Fla. steamboating and is probably the worlds foremost authority on the subject. He's not on the web, so you will have to write requesting information. Tell him I sent you.
Topic starter
19/08/2008 3:21 am
Well Bob, I know all about dusty boxes. I have a nice collection of my own! Thanks for any help you can give me.
John, I will drop a line to Edward Mueller just as soon as I can get to the post office. That will be whenever Tropical Storm Fay passes over and the water recedes. Sounds like a very promising lead. Thank you.
19/08/2008 11:42 am
My Florida steamboating information is largely contained in the fine books of Ed Mueller who, as John Fryant reported, is THE authority on the steamboats that ran on the rivers in the sunshine state.
Topic starter
20/09/2008 3:05 am
Well, I'm still researching and have found a lot of very old books that have given me a lot of the information I needed.
Recently I have been reading George Devol's "Forty Years a Gambler on the Mississippi" and it really does puncture the 'glamor' we associate with riverboat gamblers. It's chock full of fascinating stories, but I'm thinking there are a few tall tales here and there. None the less it's one of the most fun books I've read so far! Now I have the flavor of the time, the vernacular, and a feel for the riverboat environment.
I still have gaps in my knowlege and will be appreciative of any additional information that could be dropped in here.
Now, questions. Devol refers to the 'guards' as if it were another name for a boat's deck. Is this correct?
Where might I get some idea of the layout of a few riverboats? I want to be able to picture different decks and how rooms might have been arranged. Does anyone know of a site that might have 'exploded' graphics?
The gamblers seemed to do a lot of 'business' in the barbershops. I get the impression that barbershops were more than just grooming parlors. And it also seems that the barber was the one who had first-aid training. What all did barbers do back then on the boats?
I know I'm full of questions. I still intend to write to Mr. Mueller once I know enough to ask intelligent questions. 🙂
Thank you for all your help so far. I get more fascinated the more I dig.
20/09/2008 3:31 am
Kate, as to the question about "Guards", guards are the over hang of deck, on the main or bottom deck. They hang out over the edge of the gunwale, or edge of the hull. Thus, a boat's hul may be, say, 30 feet wide, but the main deck itself might be 40 feet wide. The overhangs are the "guards".
Topic starter
20/09/2008 3:37 am
Thank you, Bob! I can picture that now. One more puzzle piece pops into place. 🙂
20/09/2008 3:43 pm
"Guards" also can refer to the part of the hull deck that goes around the sidewheels (on a sidewheeler)--I've even heard of the wheel boxes being called guards.
Barbers in the west were also oftimes the only "Doctors" in a community. Don't know if this held true on the boats too. (old barber sign joke read, "Haircuts 5¢, Brain Surgery 50¢") Barber shops were often the "information central" of a community.
S'
David D.
20/09/2008 10:21 pm
And still are in the black community. A few years ago there was a film named "Barbershop" starring, I believe, Cedric the Entertainer, that chronicled this phenomena.
02/10/2008 3:00 pm
On boats south of Louisville, many of the barbers were black, usually free men. Usually they were not employees of the boat but rented space from the captain. Their shops could be centers of communication and conversation, but so could the bar or the saloon.
As for Devol, his book is really interesting but can't be taken at face value. It is embellished and something of a cautionary tale.