electricity on steamboats

Hey Franz,
Don't know much on this outside of what appears in the John Hartford song about the Guiding Star. In the song John mentions it being a toss up between the R.R. Springer and Guiding Star as to which boat had the first electric lights on the Ohio. And there is also mention of the 1880's. Not sure how much factual research has been done on this topic but I would guess by 1899 electric lights would have been common on the larger packets. Not sure if this helps or stirs the pot further.

Aaron

Good Morning Franz: Your author could not have picked a more difficult time frame. 1899-1900 was a transition period. Older boats still in service were mostly gas or oil for interior lighting. A lot of these had small steam generators for their electric searchlights. The first fully electric packet on the Ohio river was the SUNSHINE built in 1892. The big "brag boats" the QUEEN CITY, built in 1897 and the VIRGINIA, built 1895 came out with oil lamp lighting. Both were changed over to electric before 1905. My guess would be in 1899 most of the packets were still gas or oil lighting

Hi Aaron,

I just found some more details in Alan Bates' "Western Rivers Cyclopoedium". According to Alan, electric arch searchlights arrived on the rivers in the 1880s and he also mentions that a red light has been mounted at the stern mast of towboats after 1885. So I assume, as they obviously had electric power on these boats, they probably used it for lighting the public areas and staterooms as well by then.

I still wonder what they used for lighting before they had electric power. I can't imagine they used gas lights on boats, especially inside, did they?

Franz

Thanks so much, Bill! That also answers my questions I just wrote in my posting while you were writing your answers to that at the same time 😉

Franz

According to the book "Old times on the upper Mississippi",
The author in the final chapter gets a last go 'round as a pilot on the Mary Morton steamboat in 1881 after being away from the river and his previous pilot work for some decades.

He makes a note that this boat had an electric search light where in the mid 1800s they navigated by a wing and a prayer because torches would only light the surround area of the torch and blind the pilot from being able to read the river at night.

The NEW MARY HOUSTON had a large electric light a year after she came out in 1878. There is a grainy photo of the apparatus hanging on a boom above the forecastle in one of the Fred Way era Reflectors

As far as electricity on steamboats the earliest dynamos, (and if I'm not mistaken on the CHAUTAUQUA BELLE today) the generators were powered by reciprocating engines. The Troy Endenberg (sp?) Co. made fine horizontal engines for this and other purposes.

*Electric lighting on steamboats*
Steamboating colleagues:
Frank Prudent is KERRECK! on the MARY HOUSTON having a kind of electrical system aboard probably for an arc light in 1877. No mention of what the generating plant was then termed "a newer, cheaper system...bright as day." The rebuilt GENERAL LYTLE also had a lighting system installed in 1875. The 'Seimens/Wheatstone' generating electrical plant dated from 1867 gaining wider use. Other steam powered dynamos began appearing on steamboats/ships in/around 1881 with a 'brush dynamo' of 4,6800 lbs running with 36 horse power steam. Refrigeration/deep freezing began appearing on 'some' boats/ships by about 1888 for on-board food consumption, long distance hauling of food cargo.

There were also then some plants on steamboats mentioned as running on "gas" with pipes. Others used "carbide gas" in lanterns etc. Nix candles and wrought iron flame baskets early on as being highly dangerous in winds. Some lanterns did early on use candles, but again a sure route to disaster. Many large steamboat cabin lights ran on expensive whale oil later replaced by kerosene and coal oils. Some years back at an S&D meeting, Capt. Bill Judd and others set up on the bank at Marietta an authentic iron flame basket with pine knots as a display. It certainly burned bright that night, but with showers of sparks. I have no idea at this moment when tanked or bottled proopane came into generally accepted use. Capt. Fred Way did a big blow in one of his REFLECTORS telling of the NEW MARY HOUSTON's then revolutionary light plant. Big whigs in East Coast boat/ship building then commented in various journals and papers on the seeming "old fashioned, primitive" mode of building steamboats out here on our inland rivers of wood shunning iron, steel and other new concepts. They didn't often understand the dynamics of our rivers, economic needs, still relatively easy, cheap wood to be had in the upper Midwest. Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.

Frank, in 1988 the CHAUTAUQUA BELLE had a large steam turbine generator. If I am not mistaken, the engineer told me the generator consumed far more steam (and fuel) than the tiny main engines. Whether that plant is still aboard her I don't know; Mat Stage will be our man on that.

*'Natural light' on boats & ships*
Steamboating colleagues:
In answer to questions posted by Franz: another light source on steamboats/ships was 'natural light' admitted by glass transoms on some steamboats on inside/outside passenger cabin doors along with the high clerestory windows on the Texas above the long cabin. These transom window above doors also allowed some air circulation. These windows, running fore to aft, often stained glass to cut brighter, direct rays. Back then--and before--people relied more on true, natural light in homes, big buildings, churches etc. Some steamboats/ships even built with glass domes above main cabins, lounges, Purser areas. Fine during the day, but dark, cold, forbidding at night. Many modern cruise ships today still install glass domes, but are now artifically illuminated from behind or with other exterior lights. And they can be quite impressive. Before artificial lighting nights were very dark, forbidding, frightening, dangerous to those with superstitions. A scentific friend of mine here at University of Cincinnati did experiments using candles, gas, whale oil, coal oil/kerosene. His findings were whale oil, though expensive back then and now, burns with a brighter, clearer flame and nearly smokeless.

Builders then here, in Great Britain, continental Europe termed it "the high great light." At times somewhat softened by drapes, valances, curtains, shutters, 'portiers,' sheers of thin cloth. Even the DELTA KING/DELTA QUEEN constructed in California with the 'light domes' in the aft cabins of stained glass. These Capt. Tom Greene didn't particularily care for; thus torn out, roofed over. The fate of these long missing glass domes on the DQ have been a topic of discussion here and other places in recent years. But that's another story.

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

It is interesting that the Dredge in the BB Riverboat fleet (WILLIAM S. MITCHELL) has a reciprocating steam engine to power her large refrigerator. Don't remember her light plant. Fred Way wrote in the 1920 that he had to stop writing (a letter, I think) because they were shutting down the on-board light plant. I believe it would not have been a turbine. Steam locomotives by then had turbine driven light plants that I've heard were "notoriously inefficient". Before and after 1910, there were gasoline fueled converters that turned the gasoline into vapor and piped the gas to stoves and lighting devices. They burned some of the gasoline to heat the gasoline and vaporize it. They were for use in areas that had not been electrified...they were made in Cincinnati but I never heard of them being used on steamboats. If you are curious, I have one removed from a dentist's office in Independence, Kentucky. In 1899, I believe that few boats had their own light plants. Cap'n Walnut.

Check March 2011 issue of S&D Reflector, p. 43ff on "Deck Outline Lights and Steam Calliopes."

hi all
I believe the dredge Captain Meriwether Lewis came out in 1932 with reciprocating engines for her DC power plants. After WWII she got two surplus Turbine powered DC generators. If my memory is correct she still had one of the original reciprocating unites in place. and there was a small AC generator back by the machine shop for the newer radio equipment.
I am in St Paul, MN no ice here but so far nothing sees to be moving. North River Service is still tied up. there are 8 empties tied off above them and 3 loads below the highway 59 bridge, and a fleet of empties in the bend below.

I think the light plant on the W. P. SNYDER is recip also. Cap'n Walnut

Save the Whales

Jet A fuel also burns clear and bright in a kerosene lantern. We used kerosene lanterns on our night tours. They did not attract bugs for some strange reason. A properly adjusted lantern does not smoke.

*RE: 'Save the whales*
Hi, Lexie,
The U.C. experiments here done some years ago used oil from dead whales that had been washed up on beaches. Dr. George Rivescel, developer of Benadryl, shark repellant, coating for marine and military fabrics said whale oil--what he had on hand--was smokeless. I'd hate to think what his lab went through to obtail the oil for experiments. Good point if whale oil ever attracted bugs. Alas, Dr. Rieveschl is long deceased now. Was the "Jet A fuel" you burned given approval by the Coast Guard?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Jet A vs whale oil

Oh, yes! The Coast Guard approved of everything we did. They thought we were very innovative by doing everything the old fashioned way.

Another thing that burns pretty well in a kerosene lantern is winter grade diesel. Unless you know someone, or own a jet, jet fuel is hard to come by, so we didn't have much. We knew a guy that had a jet, but he crashed it and bought the farm, so no more JetA.

*RE: 'Jet A'*
Hi, Lexie,
Well, I learn something new every day. I was pondering here how dangerous 'Jet A' would be in a lantern. No, I don't know anybody who owns a jet. Whale oil comes in several grades depending on the species. It was very expensive back in the old days before kerosene/coal oil and is not only incredibly expensive [It you can even get it] today. Fine clock repair and precision instruments use now a kind of artificial oil. Also think they use shark oil. For a time ages ago ship engineers used a grade of olive oil

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Danger of using JetA in a lantern really no different from any other common fuel. Diesel fuel, kerosene, and jet fuel are all very close-cousin distillates. Gasoline is the scary one.

Even scarier on a boat is propane, of which I think the CG has great disdane. Some people put it on their boats for grills and such or even firing a boiler. I'm with the CG on this one. I would rather swim.

The number of folks who heat their home and cook with propane is legion. The number of people who pump that nasty old gasoline every day is likely even larger. Both can travel to and find an ignition source. Even No.6 oil upon heating produces fumes that can destroy a steamboat in one swell foop! I've just been lucky, I guess! Cap'n Walnut.

Quite true, Cap'n Walnut. If gasoline were introduced as a new source of energy today, the myriad gummint safety agencies would ban it with breathtaking swiftness. 'Tis a remarkable thing that it is used so widely with so very few accidents.

The AVALON had two recip DC generator units...a small Skinner for daytime use and a larger one of a different make for nightime use. The DQ had turbine DC generators which had a very piercing high pitch whine. The BELLE didn't get its AC turbine generator until about 1965. Before that needed AC was supplied by a DC motor running an AC generator, same way on the DQ before Muster bought the AC generators which were installed prior to the 1968 season.

Lucky, lucky, lucky

The propane, being heavier than air, can collect in bilges, as does gasoline fumes. I have personally witnessed what either can do if ignited. Not a pretty sight. Has made me flinchy ever since. Homes with propane tanks outdoors, not a problem. All those millions of cars would be exploding right and left if there weren't a pretty foolproof system in place. Do you know of any steamboats or ships or barges that have been destroyed by #6 fumes, while under normal operation (no cutting torches around). Just curious.

There is a convenience store next door, although a few hundred yards away. It has a giant propane tank from which they sell the stuff. Since it is mounted perpendicular, I call it the missile.

During the major flood here in St Louis a few years ago a very large area in Lemay (South of the River Des Peres) was evacuated very rapidly and forcefully by the Constabulary due to the river rising to the bottoms of a LARGE Propane Tank Farm. For whatever reason the tanks are not--or were not then--anchored to the concrete cradles they sit in.

The fear was that if one or more broke a connecting line there would be a Big Time Explosion.

Mercifully no catastrophe occurred.