GORDON C. GREENE new

Judy,

GREAT picture. Do we have any info on her size? From the looks of the trees on shore, I'm guessing about the same as the DQ? Maybe a little longer?

Paul

Hi, Paul. I am sorry that due to an impending move, my Way's Packet Directory is packed away, so I can't give you the GORDON's exact dimensions. However, she was a good bit smaller than the DQ -- in fact, the reason Capt. Tom wanted the DQ was due to her size. Not only was the DELTA QUEEN longer, wider, and could carry more pax, but did it in MUCH finer style. On the GORDON, most (if not all) facilities were "down the hall", so to speak. While the DQ had some rooms like this up until the late 1970's, many of the DQ's rooms had shower and toliet from the get-go. Another big reason for wanting the DQ over the GORDON was for trips to New Orleans. The GORDON's minimal freeboard and low bow coaming made for a much rougher and frankly, less safe trip to the "war zone".
I'm sure someone else will chime in with her actual dimensions.

I'm not packed up for a move, just hunkered down during a tornado warning, so I've got my Ways right here in a semi-safe spot! built in 1923 at Howards 210 x 38 x 6.5. Engines from the Ferd Herold, 18s x8. Paddlewheel 22' diameter with 28' buckets. Even though we've had some pix in much earlier threads, I'll repost some as she changed under the Greene Line banner. But for now, its off the air as the severe thunderstorms are hitting....

Gordon C. Greene Transformation

Ok, no tornadoes or lightning strikes, just some water in the basement, so here goes with a series of GORDON C. GREENE pictures showing the changes from the light, airy, CAPE GIRARDEAU to the enclosed, top heavy, but lovable and functional GCG....1) taken by Fred Way in 1936. Note the small texas added on same level as pilothouse and 3rd deck texas extended more toward stern 2) taken in Charleston in front of Capitol building, 1937? Note longer
4th deck texas, with pilothouse raised, but pilot's feet were still within the top texas' area, not totally above it on roof. Also note the enclosed observation area on stern of 3rd deck. 3) Departing for Mardi Gras Feb. 20, 1938. Note Boiler Deck enclosure beginning from railing down.

More exterior shots

1) At St. Louis in 1948. Notice the Boiler Deck is completely enclosed. (This is the same progression as the IDLEWILD/AVALON and the PRESIDENT) Her stacks are lower. 2) Sept. 17, 1949. A beautiful smooth as glass shot at Knoxville, Tennessee. 3) This one goes back to the open deck days of probably 1936, but I love it because it shows so much activity on and around the boat. It was taken at Pittsburg Landing. Note the pile of wood on the bow, more of that later. Don't you feel like you could just reach out and jump on board???

Inside the GCG

1) a worm's eye view of the main cabin. You can't see the chandeliers very well, but each had an eagle atop it from the Eagle Packet Co. days. Some chandeliers and other cabin parts now repose in the steamboat 'museums' at 921 and 629... 2) 1937 "new" Passenger Texas Deck cabin. Maybe its the angle, but does there seem to be a lot of headroom between these bunks? 3) securing her at a landing

Onboard activities on the GCG

1) Looks like the 11 at 11, but it probably took 12 laps for a mile here. Note that they are about to step onto the shuffleboard ramp, or board, or whatever its called. 2) 1937 Horse races 3) Walter Yetter, pianist, relaxes on deck.

Wooding up

No date or location on these pictures, but note the piles of wood already on bow and passengers 'supervising' the loading...

GCG personalities

1) taken by J.Mack Gamble June 26, 1939 at Marietta. Frederick Way, Jessie Parr, Charles W. Stoll, Marijane Palmer (CW's notation) 2) Capt. Howard M. "Doc" Carr 3) Doc Carr assisting the ladies across the gangplank

and finally, that famous crew picture

No date listed but C.W. has carefully listed all the participants:
Standing -
Walter Yetter, piano
Judy Vaughn, stand
John Whited, trumpet
C.W. Stoll, 3rd clerk
Lloyd Mayes, Striker
Hal Spencer, sax
Lillian Hughes, Hostess
Ed Lambert, Sailorman
Tom Brown, 2nd Engineer
John Yetter, drummer
Bill Horne, carpenter
Bob McCann, 2nd clerk
Seated -
Billy Garrison, Steward
Wiley Hill, Mate
Henry Holloway, Pilot
Tom R. Greene, Master
Jesse P. Hughes, Pilot
Volney E. White, Purser
Charles J. Atkinson, Chief Engineer

Thus ends this glimpse back into the GORDON C. GREENE days. All of these photos are from C.W. Stoll's personal collection, and thanks to his precise annotations we learn much from these photos. I only wish I had been around for the GCG - my dad took me over to Davenport in 1951 to see her when she and the AVALON were there side by side, but I unfortunately have no recollection of that. Hopefully some of you who did have personal experience with the GCG will share some of your insights with us now... time to pack for NOLA and the NATCHEZ!!!!

Very, very nice photos! Thanks for posting them!
-Jim Herron

Marvellous photos!

Thanks for sharing!

Bernd Lorenzen

Judy, these are just fantastic! Where did you get them?!?

Splendid bunch of photos, Judy. I, being a Kentucky boy, do remember seeing the GCG as I crossed the river into CIncy as a kid. As you pointed out, the changes that made her look the way she did were done for practical purposes and if you could abide them, acceptance of the DQ's "different" looks were more easily understood, but she was in stark contrast to the slim lines of the TOM GREENE and CHRIS GREENE which lay there at the landing too. Thanks for sharing!

Source of photos

C.W. Stoll ran a steamboat photo business out of his basement - Rock Hill Steamboats. Roy Barkhau and Doc Hawley were partners. But it was more a pleasure for him to collect steamboat photos than a business. He annotated almost every one very precisely, unlike what so many of us don't do (Oh, I'll always remember that...) C.W., like Fred Way and many others, wanted the younger generations to share in his wealth and knowledge of the river world. So, many years ago C.W. and Lucy invited Keith and me up to Rock Hill for a weekend, which we spent poring through those filing cabinets in the basement and taking whatever photos we wanted. We were so intent on this that we hated to surface even when Lucy announced the pizza delivery had arrived! But it was a wonderful weekend spent with steamboating friends, and C.W. knew that Keith and I would 'share the torch' too. And to continue his generosity and desire to keep the knowledge flowing into future generations, C.W. willed his extensive book collection to the Howard Museum and his photos, negatives, and hundreds of glass negatives to Jerry Sutphin. So C.W. lives on and on, thanks to his foresight and generosity

Steamboating colleagues:
Thanks, Judy, for the photos Re: GORDON C. GREENE etc. Tom Schiffer mentioned seeing the GORDON at the GREENE LINE wharfboat over the years docked when in port. Capt. C.W. Stoll, along with many others, raved over the 'atmosphere' and appeal the GORDON had for legions of steamboat fans, travelers. As Capt. Fred Way wrote/stated, she paved the way for the purchase and refurbishment of the then new DELTA QUEEN.

Judy is right on Re: the recently offered volume on E=Bay as being a collection of steamboat newspapers on the boat bound in leather. There's someplace a B/W photo of Fred Way sitting at a typewriter on the guard of the GORDON pounding out the newspaper with an intent look on his face. I can't find it now but no doubt there are others out there who recall seeing that shot. Old timers here in town still wax with great enthusiasm over the pleasures and 'hominess' of the GORDON. 'Stogie' White, boon companion of Fred Way and Tom Greene, stood a lot of duty on the GORDON. GL Purser, Bob McCann, was on her for nearly her entire operating life here under the GL banner. As posted a few years ago, Bob's final entry in her log book is a classic. "Farewell, old girl, it's not your fault." When the then new DELTA QUEEN arrived here Capt. Mary B. Greene led the parade over on to their new member of the GL fleet.

As a little brat I vaguely recall the GORDON steaming around here in Cincinnati and hearing her whistle. This 'thing' [In my eyes then] was going up and down the river being pointed out to me by my father. I last saw her at the GL wharfboat cooled down. Don't recall much now with my dad other than the big, black stacks, lower deck and a dark main cabin with just a few lights turned on. Dad would say, "Did you hear the GORDON'S whistle last night...must have been about 3:00 AM."
Well, what do I know?

Cheers,
R. Dale Flick

Dale,

Your post about your father pointing the GORDON out to you reminds me of what I tell my boys now about boats, houses, DC-3's, etc. History from Dad, and no, they don't care! David Plowden wrote an article for, I believe, American Heritage magazine in which he tells the story of taking a detour to see some old lake steamer that was headed for the scrapyard. He goes on and on about it, and his kids finally say, "Dad, can we please go now?" Yeah, some of it will sink in but by then the object in question is long gone and we kick ourselves for not paying more attention. Why is it that, with a few exceptions, we're not interested in history until we're older?

Bet you and Dale weren't late history bloomer. Probably true of so many others on here. My father called my early interest in the historical, "living in the past," but he knew the names, numbers, and stats of every major league baseball player from his boyhood until he died nine years ago. His interests in history were just different than mine.

My father always drove us around town on Sundays and pointed stuff out. We always went by the Kahlke Yard and looked at the QUINLAN. Back then, it scared me and I wondered who would ever go near it. Well, if it were here now, I know the answer! Dad also took my sister and me on the little ferry, the TRANSIT, once a week. We'd get off in Davenport, have a root beer at the stand there, and return on the following round trip. Dad and I also zipped down to the levee whenever we heard the DQ's whistle for the Crescent RR Bridge, so we could see her land at the old RI levee. And of course there was the levee sitting during the 8 day 1954 layover here, and the yearly AVALON calliope concerts on the levee. But I don't recall ever talking about the older Streckfus boats until I started riding the DQ and getting completely hooked on the river. But the seed had been planted many years earlier, and my Dad, and Mom too, enjoyed my association with the DQ and the NATCHEZ. They took 3 trips on the DQ back in the 70s and always met us at the lock when I was aboard, and later we'd chase the DQ and MQ from Muscatine up to LeClaire, and sometimes drive up to Dubuque, where we invariably met up with the sr. Tschiggfries in the Forward Cabin Lounge. I'm just sorry that my parents never got to see or ride the NATCHEZ. I'd suspect a good many of us could 'blame' a parent or two for our 'addiction'...

Judy Patsch;4784 wrote: I'd suspect a good many of us could 'blame' a parent or two for our 'addiction'...

Some of us not only had to blame our parents, but grandparents too!

Super great find of those GCG pictures Aunt Judy...even though they were from the time of my parents birth, I can almost imagine being there in those times!

Judy, the "Judy Vaughan" you have listed is actually Jody Vaughan, a male (CW's handwriting wasn't too great, was it?). There are three of our relatives in this picture of the GORDON'S crew, can't remember which year but before 1938, a picture much loved in our family and especially by my mother. Jody was Mom's favorite cousin, related to her on her mother's side, the Vaughans, also a river family, with captains on the Big Sandy and Ohio Rivers going back three or four generations before Mom. Jody's father was Captain David Vaughan, my grandmother's dearly loved brother.

My other relatives in the picture are more familiar to some posters on this board. Mom's sister, my aunt, Lillian Hughes, for whom I am named, was the hostess on the boat until her death in 1938, and Mom's father, my grandfather, Captain Jesse P. Hughes, was pilot on the boat all of her days as a Greene Line boat. It was Grandpa who helped Tom with the re-design that made the boat inevitably topheavy but also which gave her the passenger capacity that made her the money-maker for the company, causing Grandpa to call her the goose that laid the golden egg.

As you can tell, the Greenes believed in nepotism in the best sense of the word. They lovingly piled all sorts of relatives, and relatives of loved employees and good friends of the family, onto the boats all over the place.

Thanks for posting these pictures, Judy. Your GORDON collection, so carefully put together in that album of yours, is an absolute treasure that I could spend days looking at. I'm afraid that I must admit to being old enough to remember a fair amount from my adventures as a little girl aboard during the GORDON'S last years. That picture of the cabin in particular brings to mind a memory of doing the Virginia Reel in there as an itty bitty thing. I really loved that boat. I can still remember watching the fireman shovel coal in to fire up the boilers, and how unbelievably hot it was down there. Can you imagine what the Coast Guard would say now about a little girl being down in the boiler room with the furnace door wide open, flames leaping up all over the place? Actually, I'm not quite sure what my parents and grandparents and the Greenes would have said about that. I suspect (though I can't remember exactly) that I must have been where I hadn't oughter been ...

Wasn't it your grandfather's idea to simply raise the texas and build the bigger one under it? That addition obviously added a lot of passenger rooms to increase the fare take, goldenly! Well, its time to sign off for a week or so as I'm heading to NOLA in the EARLY am... hope there are some more GCG stories when I return...

I don't know whether it was Grandpa's idea to raise the Texas on the GORDON or if he was just designing what Tom and/or Chris wanted him to do. I know he facilitated the design of the TOM GREENE and did all of the design of the CHRIS GREENE (this was for Capt. Gordon Greene the elder), but when it came to the re-design of the GORDON, as well as of the deck extensions and I don't know what else on the DELTA QUEEN when they got her in 1947, I don't know whether it was his ideas or whether he was just carrying out what Tom wanted. I suspect both, in tandem. They worked well together, just as he had worked well with Tom's father, Gordon Sr. I think Gordon Greene (the younger) knows more about the DQ work, as he has the architectural plans that Grandpa drew for it back then. I was surprised when Gordon notified me a couple of years ago that he had found these DQ blueprints done by Grandpa, because I had not been aware that my grandfather had done that kind of work on the DQ.