More research help

Thanks Alice for such an interesting challenge for our cyber crew. Though I'd like to answer, I'll just step back and watch.... for a while.

Actually, I prefer pilothouse spelled as one word, but my spell-checker says otherwise, but I believe most folks on the river are partial to the singular spelling. I also like to call the pilothouse the wheelhouse, one word. Although it probably doesn't matter either way.

See. I already made a liar of myself by answering.

Okay, Sam, I'll jump in. I, too, like the singular spelling Pilothouse. I had always understood wheelhouse to be a term for the enclosures of the paddlewheels on a sidewheeler.

Alice, "Cabin Deck" is a new term that was, I believe, coined by the Greene Line for the DELTA QUEEN. The preferred term is "Boiler Deck", even though there are no boilers on it -- the boilers are on the deck BELOW the boiler deck.

There were a few boats that had a pull cord for the whistle, but usually there was a pedal on the floor that the pilot had to tromp on pretty hard to open the valve to blow the whistle.

"Saloon/Salon" I will eave for the next person ;-).

Saloon is like a beer and whiskey tavern.
Salon I beleive is a beauty parlor.
Any one say different?
~ Frank ~

The answer to all your questions can be found in Alan Bates' STEAMBOAT ENCYCLOPEDIUM which you can get either from the author (who happens to be a frequent poster on this board) or from the Howard Steamboat Museum.

I agree Frank. On the Mississippi Queen the main show room was known as the Grand Saloon. Many tried to pronounce it salon but had to be corrected. Perhaps that was terminology particular to the Mississippi Queen only.

The BELLE OF LOUISVILLE uses the footpedal option for her whistle. I can't remember how the JULIA BELLE'S is blown. And on the infrequent occasions they blow the steam whistle on the AQ, is that by foot pedal? I've never been in the pilothouse(my usual spelling) when they've blown it, so I don't have a clue about it.

As far as I remember, all the three Queens and the Natchez have a "cord", the Belle and the Julia Belle Swain have a foot pedal.

Carmen

I can tell you for SURE the DELTA QUEEN has a pull cord. I'd give anything to ride up in that pilothouse and pull that cord enough to learn to use it correctly!!!

Thank you--again

Okay, my mind is spinning but I'll go with pilothouse as one word and boiler deck instead of cabin deck. As for pedal or rope, hmmmm. I'll keep checking back to see if anyone else 'weighs in'. And I'll go with saloon because my 'old' dictionary at home describes it as the large hall/cabin on steamboats and others find that correct. I have a feeling as I write, I will have more of these questions!

Alice,

Regarding the whistle - maybe some more technical person can help out -: Am I right assuming that the foot pedal came in more handy with a big wheel so the pilot had hands free for the wheel and using his foot for the whistle? I´m just assuming this as both the Belle of Louisville and the Julia Belle Swain do have a wheel and no steering levers. With steering levers the pilot has a had free to pull the cord (like on the Queens and the Natchez).

Carmen

I believe the reason for a foot pedal or rope pull is determand by the location of the valve, as for the Belle it is located in the overhead area of the Main deck 3 decks below. the Queen's valve is on the roof. (the shortest distance rule applies)

Generally, the whistle was operated by a pedal located on the Pilothouse floor. The valve was located atop the boilers and a cable was the means of attachment. It was a very rare thing to see a whistle operated by a pull cord in the overhead in the early days of whistles on boats. For the most part, an overhead pull for the whistle was/is accompanied by a valve located on the steam line almost imediately under the steam whistle. The signaling (or roof) bell almost always had an overhead pull.

What I would find interesting would be to have one of our resident Engineers to give us the point-counterpoint on the location of the valve of the whistle. I have noticed water (condensate) seems to collect more when the valve is farther from the whistle. The DELTA QUEEN seems to be an exception to this rule since the whistle was relocated off the smokestack of the vessel (to the aft Pilothouse). Perhaps the stack jacket kept the line warmer and thus kept the steam from condensing? Ideas, Engineering types?

~Travis~

Judy,

The AMERICAN QUEEN steam whistle is operated by a button on the console in the Pilothouse. This operates a Magnatrol brand selonoid valve mounted under the whistle on a accumulation tank which is in place to assist in maintaining the flow of steam as the line to the whistle is so long from the boiler room some 6 decks below.

When she came out in June of 1995 she had a single steam line and a manual valve with cord in the center of the Pilothouse. At that time she had the JASON/HERBERT E JONES whistle aboard on loan from Madison Coal and Supply. It never had enough flow of steam to operate it properly and they switched whistles and added this tank and electronic valve in 1997. Some call the whistle the "Disney Whistle" as legend has it the whistle came from a Disney warehouse. It is said it was a stock peice to replace the whistle on one of their steamboats should the need arise.

However, the whistle is a standard peice from Kahlenberg and can be ordered at their website.... Air Whistles, Steam Whistles, Tug Whistles - Kahlenberg Brothers Company so I would not be inclined to state this is fact.

Just for those who want to know, the AQ usually uses her air horns for signaling, they are also a Kahlenberg set.

~Travis~

Alice, I wrote a detailed description of a packet cabin and got a notice that I was not registered, which was not true. Perhaps Carmen or Franz can dig it out of wherever such things are cast.

Travis, regarding position of the whistle valve....anytime you have a steam valve that is serving a device that will be releasing steam to atmosphere, be it a whistle, a calliope whistle, or in my business a humidifier, it is ideal to have the valve as close to the item that is using it as possible. The reason being that any steam remaining "downstream" of the valve after the valve is shut off, especially with vertical 'up' piping will condense into water when the steam cools and sit there until the next time you open the valve to operate the device. The closer the valve is to the device, the less piping there is from the valve to atmosphere, and the less steam volume will be remaining to condense to water, the less water that you gotta wait until it clears before the device, in this case a whistle, will work. Even a very short piece of pipe downstream of the valve will contain enough steam that when it cools considerable water will be produced, witness the calliope "raining" when first warmed up...gotta get all that condensate downsteam of the Magnetrols outa there, even though the valve to whistle pipe length is very short. I've noticed that the DQ's whistle must be warmed up just like the calliope and I have been rained on by the whistle a few times if the wind is right. The piping serving the steam using item should be steam trapped as close as possible upstream of the steam valve, to get rid of any condensate that occurs before the valve also, such that only steam is available at the entrance to the valve. Piping downsteam of the valve, piping that exits at atmosphere is rarely, if at all steam trapped.

So the shorter the piping is from valve to whistle, the less raining occurs, and the main reason, the faster the device will begin to work as intended as you warm it up...

I've noticed that when Tony plays the calliope, even though he warms up all the whistles, there is one song that he plays sorta in the middle of his set that when he hits a certain key, serving the second whistle from the left, it won't play, it rains, even though warmed up previously. Then the next time he hits the key the whistle plays. What this says is that that pipe between that valve and that whistle is cooling off the steam too fast turning it too quickly to condensate. Always wondered what a little bit of pipe insulation between the Magnatrol and that particular whistle would do...

Also, if you think about it, actually geeky engineers like me are the only ones that think about this stuff, if the whistle pointed downward and the pipe serving it was totally downhill from the valve to the whistle so that the cooled condensate would run out of the piping by gravity by itself rather than needing to be pushed out with steam, 'warming up' to get rid of the rain would never be required. But then again, downward pointing steam whistles and calliope whistles wouldn't look very steamboaty...then again the whistle bells themselves would have condensate collect in them, I suspect.

Capt Bates, I too have "lost" posts that are longer in length, the very same way as you described. I suspect it has to do with the time limits set up in the forum's software. Anyways, what seems to solve the issue of losing the post while typing is to hit the "preview post" button every minute or so. I think the software doesn't know we are trying to post while we are just typing our entries and logs the member out after so much time of "inactivity". The preview post button tells the software, yes indeed the logged in member is still working here.

Then again the reason for the unintentional log off is all a guess on my part...

Pedal's a Treadle

On the old-time steamboat, the pedal used to blow the whistle was usually known as the Foot Treadle or Whistle Treadle. here is a link to a mighty-fine steamboat book, I've just started reading and written in both the month and year of my launch, that uses this term:
RiverWeb

I'll try again.
A typical big sidewheeler cabin was arranged much like this, starting from the forward end.

The was a large open deck area forward of the cabin. The first room was the cabin circle, a big half-round area with doors leading to the deck and back into the cabin. It was often divided from the cabin by a bulkhead with doors. Next aft was the main cabin, and I would avoid the word saloon. It was one room almost the full length of the boat. The forward end was the gentlemen's cabin.

It was furnished with tables, chairs, a big water cooler and an army of spittoons. About even with the forward side of the paddlewheels there was a cross hall, or midship gangway opening to the exterior deck at each side. The deck was bare wood there and the cross hall was used for serving food and access to the outdoors. Aft of the midship gangway was the ladies cabin, which was carpetted, well-furnished and not equipped with spittoons. At the after end there would be another bulkhead between the cabin and the "ladies retiring room, which was equipped with all the acoutrements of a bathroom, vanities, wash bowls, toilets, etc.

There was a row of staterooms on each side of the main cabin. These were spartan spaces devoid of luxury by any standard. Each room, with a couple of exceptions, was about six to seven feet long and eight feet wide. The bulkheads were painted with glossy enamel. On the after side were two berth, a double below and a single above. On the forward side there was a row of coat hooks. The space outboard of the berths was divideded into a closet that served the next stateroom aft and a little alcove with a small washstand and pitcher and bowl. Beneath the table was a chamber pot with lid. There were doors at each side, one leading into the main cabin and one leading to the deck outside.

Frequently the aftermost staterooms in the ladies cabin were called "bridal suites" and were outfitted with a real bed not attached to the bulkhead, a nightstand, pitcher-and-bowl, chamber pot and maybe a chair or two.
Steamboat etiquette barred unattached men from the ladies cabin and the man who went aft of the midship gangway had better be married to one of the ladies there. The penalty was to be set ashore instantly, for the man was presumed to be up to no good, guilty, and subject to the captain's slightest whim for punishment.

The two staterooms farthest forward were usually occupied by the clerk's (purser's) office on one side and the bar on the other. The had openings to the main cabin,the cabin circle and maybe to the deck outside.
Also in the ladies' cabin was the piano, if the boat had one, and passengers could dance there providing all the rules of Victorian propriety were observed.
The main cabin was lighted by a row of transoms along each side and the staterooms were lighted by similar transoms below them. At night six or seven huge coal-lamped chandeliers were lighted. Most staterooms did not have lamps until the days of electricity. When electricity DID arrive the lights in staterooms were usually bare low-wattage bulbs in sockets suspended by the feed wires and turned on or off by pull chains.

Hi Alice,

In regards to why most pre 1900's steamboats had foot treadles instead of pull cords was because up until then steam valve companies where not commonly producing balanced steam whistle valves. Opening a 2" or larger non balanced steam whistle valve requires a consinderable amount of force when under pressure, so the foot treadle systems allowed pilots to put as much of their weight as needed on the foot treadle to open those valves. I think manual valves are still in place on the Julia Belle Swain and the Belle of Louisville, hence why they retain the old system. The valves on the Natchez and the DQ are balanced valves and are much easier to feather open.

Hope this helps!

Aaron

Alice: There are a number of photos of steamboat cabins on this website that you might find useful:
River Steamboats-Dellmon Collection