River Boat china dishes

There is no mention of the SILVERLAND in Way's Packet Directory, so the chances are is that she never plowed the muddy waters of the Mississippi or its major tributaries.

The L & C Line is very famous and dates back to The United States Mail Line of 1818. The china shown probably was used on the L & C's deluxe steamer CINCINNATI which ran during the 1920's.

For more information on this steamboat and others you might consider becoming a member of The Sons & Daughters of Pioneer Rivermen. The dues is a nominal $35.00 a year and includes a subscription to their high quality journal "S&D Reflector." Their website is The S&D Reflector .

*L&C LINE/STEAMER SILVERLAND CHINA*
Greetings, Kathleen Lathom and steamboating colleagues:
Like Frank Prudent, I also found no reference to any STEAMER SILVERLAND vessel in either his WAY'S PACKET DIRECTORY or his WAY'S STEAM TOWBOAT DIRECTORIES. ICertainly the name of the boat, but could it also have referenced the name of the owning company?
I dug out my extensive lists of steamboats built through the years on the Sacramento River and tributaries served by steamboats finding no similar listing other than two named SILVER this n' that. This question not uncommon as Capt. Fred Way admitted with a smile that "...some boats fell through the cracks...no data available." Fred also said many a time, "People think I know it all. Well, I don't." Likewise I would never claim to be an 'expert' in any field of endeavor. Calling myself an "expert" can often come back on one like the two-edged sword. Yet, this is what I researched and found on your two interesting pieces to date. Also one must be careful as of late there have been a few scams with china reputed to have come from such and such a ship, boat or famed hotel as phony.

The L&C LINE piece caught my attention instantly with my "Ummmmmm" as this possibly the FIRST piece I ever saw with the company name L&C LINE with the ending (S) on L&C LINES. I recall no other literature, papers, letters from the company with that mysterious (S) on the end. This possibly done by the company without a second thought or a correction with the design being added without checking as happened more than we think. Who knows? The transfer logo on the piece in that unmistakable flowing Art Deco style in the usual browish letters. This piece, as Frank states, no doubt ordered for the last big Str. CINCINNATI of 1924. Such pieces crop up now and then here in the Cincinnati area in antique stores, private dealers, junk shops, yard sales, web sites along with stateroom keys and other ephemera. The L&C LINE, in haste to get their then big, new CINCINNATI built, up and running, experienced then financial pressure with the 2nd twin steamer to be named LOUISVILLE scratched early on being bought, converted from hull up as the grand excursion Str. ISLAND QUEEN for the CONEY ISLAND amusement company here in Cincinnati until she went KABOOM! sky high and lost in September, 1947.

'Warwick China' and 'W.E. Thomas & Co.' located in Charleston, West Virginia and other cities in that state with one company closing or being absorbed by the other. 'Warwick China' in Wheeling, West Virginia operated from 1887 to 1951--placing it in the right place at the right time. The L&C LINE no doubt ordered tons of crockery etc. with their logo stenciled on what was termed 'shelf stock' pieces in that somewhat brownish color. Some of the big 'brag' boats then did commission special china and cabin furnishings to order with their logo. China on boats/ships saw hard use with more than frequent breakage or loss. Many of the big blue water ocean lines like CUNARD LINE, U.S. LINES also ordered vast amounts of china, glass etc. up to 500,000 pieces in one order which were frequently discontinued with new patters and orders made when the ship was redecorated, remodeled to new styles. Many--with exceptions--did NOT have the vessel name applied due to frequent 'exchanges' with other ship/boats of the line being 'generic.' Frank is one of the best minds with his collection of china from CUNARD LINE ships then and up to now.

The piece marked STEAMER SILVERLAND was stenciled using the 'Warwick China' pattern known as the 'Dakota' pattern. As an aside I did note in WAY'S PACKET DIRECTORY more than a few steamboats bearing the predicating name SILVER operating on the upper Mississippi and the Missouri River--in Dakota country. This just an ignorant speculation on my part. Also some with SILVER on the Ohio River. In this case SILVERLAND all one compound word, proper noun. One who is far more of an expert than me on this piece would be Jeffery Spear, president of S&D PIONEER RIVERMAN involved in the antiques business with GARTH'S Auctioneers & Appraisers. There 'also' could have been a STEAMER SILVERLAND operating on other American Rivers in the U.S. Consulting the 'Lytle List' could possibly help. In a nut shell I again know what I don't know. Perhaps others on this web with keen minds--or collections of their own--could answer this. Welcome to Steamboats.org. HAPPY NEW YEAR, 2016 to all!

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Possible South America?

I did some googling and found a 1910 ish Steamer Silverland in Argentina.

River Boat China

Mr Flick , thank you for that detailed response. So if I understand it correctly , it is more than likely the L & C Line (s) logo'ed china was used on board the Str Cincinnati for the L & C Packet Co . I also have a plate from the St Louis and Tennessee River Packet Co (pic of boat with name ) a plate from the G K Flesher and a platter from the Pittsburgh and Cincinnati Packet Co (pic of boat in a wheel logo). In all my years of collecting china have never seen much river boat china for sale . Unlike railroad china there is no book or catalog of what exists. I have seen other patterns . Does anyone collect the logo'ed boat china for the river steamers ? I can put up pics if anyone is interested. I also have some river passes and maybe brochures. Enjoying this site very informative.

*Steamboat china/STEAMER SILVERLAND*
Morning, Kathleen and Ed,
Good chance, Kathleen, that your stenciled china from the L&C LINE(S) ordered for the big sidewheel CINCINNATI new in 1924. Yet, the L&C LINE also ran the famed older Str. QUEEN CITY in tandem with the CINCINNATI. If the older QUEEN CITY still used her own traditional china a good question after the company was sold, reorganized. Chanches best your piece from the CINCINNATI. Art Deco as a design motif was coming into it's own prior and by 1920 replacing the Victorian, Edwardian and Art Nouveau designs. China, glassware, linens regarded as a 'consumable' item even if expensive. The 'mortality' rate in breakage, damage, loss was high with usual replacement stock shipped with the main order in wood packing cases or wood barrels with staw. Cardboard shipping boxes didn't arrive until years later.

I've also noticed of late other pieces of china reputed to be from steamboats coming on the general market. The sage PITTSBURGH & CINCINNATI PACKET CO. had the "wheel logo" you mentioned--but no pieces I've seen of any of the boat names stamped or stenciled. I have a few pieces here from Ohio/Mississippi River steam towboats myself along with blue water vintage ocean ships. Glad you also mention your "river passes...brochures." Yes, post photos of these if you can. If you come up blank RE: books/catalog of what exist then go by the name of the company on the back or bottom using your internet search engine. Generally the company pops up with photos of china patterns, sizes, years of operation. In identifying, naming any reputed item based on solid provenance. "Rumored" or "reputed to be such and such from..." not good enough.

Ed, you got the jump on checking the STEAMER SILVERLAND as possibly on a South American River. I fiddled here coming up with not much on my own. One vague reference to the Parana River in Argentina. I know that river well having journeyed there and into the jungles from Buenos Aires some years back. The river is wild, dangerous with nasty creatures like parana fish, scorpions, big snakes, insects, tropical fevers and those cute little colored frogs that are highly poisonous. Again, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

I would be very interested in seeing a picture of the St. Louis & Tennessee River Packet Co.plate. Howards built most of their boats and because of my association with the Howard Museum, I would very much like to see a photo of the plate.

R. Dale Flick;35199 wrote: *Steamboat china/STEAMER SILVERLAND*
Morning, Kathleen and Ed,
Good chance, Kathleen, that your stenciled china from the L&C LINE(S) ordered for the big sidewheel CINCINNATI new in 1924. Yet, the L&C LINE also ran the famed older Str. QUEEN CITY in tandem with the CINCINNATI. If the older QUEEN CITY still used her own traditional china a good question after the company was sold, reorganized. Chanches best your piece from the CINCINNATI. Art Deco as a design motif was coming into it's own prior and by 1920 replacing the Victorian, Edwardian and Art Nouveau designs. China, glassware, linens regarded as a 'consumable' item even if expensive. The 'mortality' rate in breakage, damage, loss was high with usual replacement stock shipped with the main order in wood packing cases or wood barrels with straw.

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

The L&C Line was also running the fabled KENTUCKY at that time, but I doubt that that fancy of china would have been used on a boat with linen stenciled, "Stolen from the Str. Kentucky."!

For one I would like to see more photos, bottom and general view of various pieces of the Boat china.

As I recall in June 1969 at or near Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco there was a shop selling what was billed as China from the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth along with China from the SS United States.

With little coin in pocket I did not purchase any and have always wondered if this was an up & up operation---which in the time frame of the sale of both Cunard Ships could potentially been correct.

St Louis and Tennessee River Packet Co

I have been collecting a long time so I know my china pretty well as far as dating the time of manufacturing. I have steamship patterns from West Coast and Alaska as well as various river/lake patterns. Will take pics of my river passes and brouchers and more china as time allows and post them . Thanks for your feedback !

Pittsburgh and Cincinnatti River Packet china

Very early English maker vitrified china. Hard to get decent photos but you get the idea. Also have a pass from them. K

*P&C LINE china/Str KENTUCKY*
Kathleen Lathom & Frank Prudent/Steamboating colleagues:
Kathleen, thanks very much for featuring your above PITTSBURGH & CINCINNATI PACKET LINE china. I found the logo/maker's mark a bit blurred for me to read. This china no doubt used on the P&C LINE steamers near the end of their working lives and that of the company. No doubt this piece original as you clearly see wear on the base of the plate which is a good indicator the real professionals and connoisseurs look for--neither of which I can lay claim. Capt. Fred Way also wrote about this china from his experience. Then I recalled somebody way, way back at an early S&D of Pioneer Rivermen meeting I attended showing one or more similar pieces to those above. Who knows or remembers? I saw on e=bay some years ago other P&C LINE china from the boats of an entirely different design and color pattern in something of a darkish blue all over [?] with a blue/gray unadorned rim and, I think, just 'P&C' at the top of end edge and not in the middle. Others posting here may remember this clearer than I do. Again, boats/ships frequently changed, altered their china patterns and orders more frequently than we think. As mentioned, accidental breakage--and there was a lot of that aboard--damage or just 'walking away' took a toll along with changing styles. All china, cutlery washing then done by the cabin boys, cook house scullery by hand before institutional dish washers came on line. Several old letters, records mention a boat captain or owner grandly presenting a dish, plate, cup or saucer off the steamboat tables as a gift to prominent passengers, charming ladies or children. I know we all would like to see even more along with the "pass from them" you mention. Your joining .org, postings, questions with photos move you up to the head of the class.

Frank, your mention of the Str. KENTUCKY with the later L&C LINE caught me instantly. The KENTUCKY, originally built in Madison, IN. 1907, was humorously referenced by Fred Way with none to endearing qualities as an "optical illusion Fun House" being out of kilter, stacks never striaght but "economy in operation." Local old gray heads on the Cincnnati Public Landing regarded the KENTUCKY and the Str. JOHN W. HUBBARD as "inferior sternwheelers." No doubt then like now, you got what you paid for building a steamboat, buying a new car today. These two boats pinch-hit until Hubbard and the L&C brought out the grand new CINCINNATI in 1924 running with the Str. QUEEN CITY. Many often discuss 'what could have been' had L&C LINE built the big LOUISVILLE as a sister to the CINCINNATI and no Great Depression switching from eventually cargo and night boat service to later day steamboat vacation cruising. We may never know. What china or table nappery they used aboard KENTUCKY a good guess. Again, beauty, value in the eye of the beholder with documented provenance making or breaking the perceived value. But what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

China & passes

I appreciate all the feedback. Riverboat china does not come along all that often. I was hoping to see other patterns or some solid documentation of other patterns. I have a small assortment of river passes and couple of brochures. I was amazed to have found several St Louis and Tennessee River Packet plates some what locally , so you never know. There does not seem to be to much information . Thanks K