Topic starter
10/07/2011 1:58 pm
Hey all,
Keith's posting of an Engine Room picture from the Str. SENATOR in the Obituary of William Torner ( http://www.steamboats.org/forum/river-talk-cruises/4223-memoriam-william-v-torner-1915-2011-a-post26522.html ) brought up some questions I am wondering if anyone would have answers to.
Sidewheel boats have always been of particular interest to me for many reasons (mostly because I was never aboard a functioning sidewheel steamboat in my years on the rivers). Obviously they handled better for the mere fact on the western rivers, the engines were separate. But, a few questions remain.
Before the Engine Room Telegraph, were there bell signals unique to side-wheelers for the Engineers to answer on only one engine? I have never seen a pilothouse picture showing 2 western rivers bell systems, so I am assuming there were bell signals indigenous to the sidewheel boats different from the sternwheelers.
Also on a sidewheel boat, when the Engine Room Telegraph was used, was each handle on the telegraph device set up to a different telegraph located at each engine (Port side handle to Port Engine Room Telegraph, Stb'd side handle to the Stb'd Engine Room Telegraph)?
In reading about western rivers (Mississippi River system) sidewheel boats in several books, there have been several mentions made of the ability to turn the boats in their own length by backing on one wheel and coming ahead on the other. So one can assume this was a common practice. As well, I have read how you could "twist" the boat off a sand bar with the same practice. I am just wondering how a Pilot conveyed this to the Engine Room.
Unfortunately in my experience on the rivers, we have only had sternwheel steamboats to set my knowledge. The sidewheelers of my time have been diesel powered with separate throttles for the individual wheels. I have also seen dual sternwheeler set ups, diesel powered, with individual throttles (which handle much like a sidewheeler, too).
Just a few questions that have been bouncing around in my mind for several years.
Travis
10/07/2011 3:49 pm
Good questions! I am not certain, but on sidewheel boats I thought one side of the telegraph was for the port side engine and one for the starboard. Perhaps Capt. Jim Blum. who was pilot on the Str. ADMIRAL, can explain the setup. Jim ????
Herewith is an image of Capt. Roy M. Streckfus, posing in the pilothouse of the ADMIRAL in June, 1966. Note that the telegraph handles work independently.
Topic starter
10/07/2011 4:48 pm
Keith,
Well, I'll be! Ask and ye shall receive!
So one could conclude from this picture at least the ADMIRAL had dual Engine Room Telegraphs. What a strange looking and small pilothouse for such a big boat!
It will be interesting to see what others have to say and chime in on with this subject! I am sure Capt. Jim knows a lot about the ADMIRAL and I should assume the PRESIDENT's set up, too!
I am really interested in hearing more about how the Western Rivers Bell System worked on side-wheelers, too!
Thanks for the excellent picture, Keith! What a great surprise addition to this thread!
Travis
10/07/2011 5:59 pm
Dad started out on the ISLAND QUEEN as striker, and she had two sets of engineroom bells. One set was for each engine. God, pity the hapless striker whom let her get hung up on center.
The PRESIDENT's pilothouse telegraph was set up like the ADMIRAL's one side was for the port engine the other for the starboard engine.
10/07/2011 6:43 pm
The Str. ADMIRAL telegraph was set up with one side for the Port Engine and one side for the Starboard engine. Her engines were hand shipped while the President's were steam assisted. Yes, she would spin smartly coming ahead on one and backing the other.
Her current state brings tears to the eyes. & NO, I do not have NOR do I know the whereabouts of the Pilot House telegraph OR the telegraphs by the engines.
The PRESIDENT'S engines are currently sitting side by side in what appears to be a partial cornfield in mid Illinois. Weeds too high to view if any cribbing is under them. After the damage done to them on the first two moves I dread to think what their condition is at present---even for display purposes. They have never been protected from the elements since they were removed. They have suffered the indignities of water collecting in between cylinders and bird's nest in valve gear.
12/07/2011 4:33 pm
Travis,
see figure 101 in the Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopoedium. There were two identical complete bell systems, one to the starboard engine, one to the port. There were two engineers or an engineer and a striker - each listened to his own bells. I think it was customary for the chief engineer to handle the port engine.
12/07/2011 10:11 pm
Alan, I was thinking just the opposite -- that when I rode the PRESIDENT under steam that the striker handled the port engine and the engineer the starboard. But that's only been 34 or 35 years ago.
Travis, the pilothouse end of the telegraph on the PRESIDENT looked just like the one on the BoL or the DQ, except that each handle moved separately, one for each side. There was one at each engine stand downstairs, just like the engine room end of the BELLE or the DQ.
Capt. "Tee Joe" Decareaux was the pilot that trip. We were in the pilothouse when the landing at Canal Street was made. When it came time to "ring off" the engines, he had those telegraph handles going in opposite directions, back and forth, before he set them on "Finished with Engines".
Riding the PRESEIDENT in the NO harbor was a real experience, with that full-length dance floor open from bow to stern. You could stand at one end, looking toward the other, and watch the entire boat flex end to end when we'd meet a ship.
13/07/2011 2:08 am
That shows what happens when I get to thinking, Bob. There is no such thing as "never happened" on the rivers.
13/07/2011 10:58 pm
You be the judge
Here is a photo of the port engine of the President. It was probably staged, but one has to assume that the individual in the photo was used to assuming this position. It was taken by Paul Pryor in 1977.
14/07/2011 12:16 am
Thanks, Lex, for posting that terrific photo. I remember Paul and Dorothy Pryor from S&D meetings, very nice folks, and it sticks in my mind that he had done photographic work for National Geographic. In 1978, the September/October issue of the magazine AMERICANA (now long out of business) published a wonderful spread of Paul Pryor's color steamboat photos, which included the PRESIDENT, DELTA QUEEN, CHAUTAUQUA BELLE, NATCHEZ, BELLE OF LOUISVILLE, JULIA BELLE SWAIN, etc.
14/07/2011 12:29 am
Pryor photo on Lafayette wall
And I believe there is a sunset shot of CCH at the NATCHEZ calliope hanging in the hallway to the ballroom in the Lafayette Hotel...
14/07/2011 2:53 pm
Paul did some great photos and he used a permanent photo paper that is not supposed to fade. My print is poster size, so it is more like hanging a painting on the wall. And it has not faded.