Why Not Here

The DQ Facebook page

To clarify it Jim, I started that Facebook page, not Dale. The reason I placed it on Facebook is because that is where the posters/contributors are - even Dale now! And you can see how much he has posted already of the pre 70s DQ days in Cincinnati, something which I treasure reading because that was not part of my DQ experience. Finding something past on Facebook IS a pain. Org. is so much better for archiving and researching past topics, but there are two major drawbacks here: 1)only 3 pictures per posting are allowed, and if you've posted a picture even years ago on another topic, you can't repost it now. 2) the readership is on Facebook, not here on .org. Look how few responses we get when we post now! Yes, there are lurkers out there, but that number is dwindling too. Franz and Carmen have provided us with a fantastic repository over the years here, but they do not have the financial capabilities of Zuckerberg or whatever the Facebook guy's name is, and thus the limitations here. I'll gladly start that topic here - so post away!

Judy, you are correct on all counts. In addition, Facebook has the "like" buttons, and related ways to acknowledge a post. Many times here on steamboats.org, I might find something very interesting, but have no real comment to make, certainly not the 25 character minimum. So, that's why we are not putting as much here as on FB. It's also a lot easier to share with folks on FB, those who may not be here on dot.org. As Judy says, Franz has already provided a great thing for us, but the software is different and upgrading to something as user-friendly with all those capabilities is expensive.

Here's why, Jim

The DQ memories thread has been up for 24 hours now. Bob Reynolds is the only one to respond. The first 24 hours on Facebook brought multiple postings and pix. THAT's why 'not on here' Jim. Looking forward to some of your pix and memories though...

Why here, please.

Hi Judy,

Yes, here please. Not on Facebook with no plans to be adding personal interest information on a forum wide open to "Data Mining".

Best regards,

Russ Ryle

Its here, Russ

Its here, Russ, so post away! Most of my pix are already on .org in previous threads so I suggest you look my name up and find those earlier DQ threads. I don't plan to remove those pix and repost them here.

Franz brought us out of captivity and the wilderness into the promised land. I told Franz on one of his visits to my home that Steamboats.org was the best thing to happen to us river nuts since Fred Way started the Reflector. Now everybody is deserting, its almost like treason. I do understand though as I have repeatedly tried to start a new thread only to be met with silence. You all move on, Jim Reising and I will just have a private session.

I'm still here! I just wish that I could post pics over here, but with this old worn out computer I can't post any pictures here or there now.

I'm still here too, Bill. steamboats.org is a great repository of accurate information, and we can continue to use it. However, it is more convenient in some respects to post on Facebook. Both the upsides and downsides are listed above in this thread. I'm not sure I want to be labeled a "lurker" if I don't respond to a post, but also don't want to respond if I have nothing to add to the conversation. I wish we could have all that's been discussed here in a book form, indexed. Wouldn't THAT be a treasure trove of info.!

Despite that comment Bill..

I'm still here and will remain here. I started the thread which Jim wanted (he could have started it himself) and I will add to it when I find pix that I haven't already posted on .org. As I stated once you post a pix, you can't post it in another thread unless you find it and remove it from the first thread. I'm not doing that. Unfortunately it looks like Jim wanted to stir something up, and he did. But if you truly want this place to continue to be worthwhile, you need to post, not just lurk. And by 'you' I mean the generic whoever is reading this. It is nice to know people are looking, but it would be nicer if more people would post too. That is something which Facebook definitely has over .org because of its simplicity. Now Bill, if you and Jim wish to be alone on here, just say so and we can leave. I think I have more than sufficiently shared on here even though I also post on Facebook and don't feel that comment was appropriate.

Judy, please forgive me for not giving you the credit you so rightly deserve for starting the thread. I bet you never thought it would be so successful. The reason I haven't posted more is because I have nothing to post.....my computer went "squeeee" a couple of months ago and I lost all the pictures I had scanned. I am in Florida and my dusty boxes are at home. I write comments from what I remember but have no pictures to post. I think what Bill was trying to say is it seemed like he and I were the only ones looking at .org on a regular basis.
As you know I am a river history freak and the resource you started is excellent and it needs to be preserved because in just a very few short years those who remember those times will be gone with the wind.

What I said was in half jest, we all realize how hard you and a few others have tried to keep .org alive. I certainly did not in anyway mean to offend you. As to Capt. Bob's comments I too read and then think, what can I add. If it warrants it I will jump right in with my opinion or what little knowledge I have.

Thanks guys...

We are of the pre-hi tech generation, and truth be known, we'd love to have these postings on paper in a book rather than in electronic fashion, but unfortunately that isn't today. It is great how quickly we can spread info through the internet though, much more efficiently than by print. We all are sharing our frustration in the lack of postings on .org compared to its early days, and yes Facebook is probably the main culprit for this. When you look at the statistics there are a few thousand 'members' on here, but right now there are only 31 deemed as active. But when you look at the number who have viewed a thread, it usually is in the hundreds, so we are not posting to a vacuum. And perhaps we older ones may think our memories, experiences aren't of interest to younger people so we don't share them. And we aren't conditioned to post just to be posting. Well, time to go have some Eggbeaters for breakfast. Oops, sorry that's Facebook stuff 😉

And people on dial-up, like me, cannot access Facebook--it takes up way too much bandwidth--but Steamboats.org doesn't!!
The whole world does not exist on Facebook!!!

*Why not here?/FACEBOOK*
Morning, Steamboating colleagues:
Interesting thread here and I agree with you all. I'm still here for sure with a number of 'private off-line' messages for other information, history coming to me. Judy makes a good point with .org after all these years. I never heard of steamboats.org until Judy opened her lap computer at an S&D meeting years back tuning us in. One problem I've had is not being able to post photos here direct no matter what I do. Steamboats.org also allows for the 'private message' application to ask questions, correct a posting or statement--even vent concern and anger. It's a give-and-take process. Remember, things written/posted at times done so with a different intrepretion by the reader. "Post in haste, repent in leisure." You'd be surprised at the 'eyes' who lurk, click, read here from politcal action to legal eyes. I 'think' .org originally conceived as a total DELTA QUEEN site, diversifed, expanded the discussion threads. Granted there's even been some rough days here with misunderstandings between posters that were ironed out 'off line.' FACEBOOK has the direct link with news on your E=Mail side about new postings, comments etc. as they come in this web lacks. Just an observation.

Correction above. I had nothing to do with setting up the new FACEBOOK web 'DELTA QUEEN Memories...pre 1990s.' I received one of those invitations to join and did. its' good for sure but I agree with Jim about it not being as "permanent" as Steamboats.org. Since then there has been an explosion in new FACEBOOK webs from DELTA QUEEN to Cincinnait history, Great Lakes ships, ocean liners on and on. Great stuff, but to check with each would have me on FACEBOOK for hours a day. I like Steamboats.org and 'DELTA QUEEN Memories. We thank you Franz and Carmen! Well, what do I know?
R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.

Just wanted to mention that it's actually far easier to "data mine" postings here on .ORG than it is to data mine Facebook. In both cases, anyone can go to .ORG and lurk, search for keywords etc, and they can also go to Facebook groups, lurk and search (provided it's an "open" group).

The big difference is Facebook prevents "Web Bots" from gathering info for search engines like Google. So while I can easily use Google to data mine steamboats.org, I don't get much if I try to use Google to data mine Facebook groups. (unless the creator of the group has enabled a special option to allow Web Bots to gather info, which is not the default, and rarely enabled).

So for example, if I go to Google and do a site search on the phrase "JOHN J. KELLY" appearing only within steamboats.org, I type this in at Google's prompt:
site:steamboats.org "JOHN J. KELLY"
and Google lists 19 or more postings I can go look at.

If I try to use Google to data mine my Facebook group ("Gas & Diesel Sternwheel Boats"), I type this into Google:
site:facebook.com "Gas & Diesel Sternwheel Boats" "JOHN J. KELLY"

and even though the JOHN J. KELLY was a topic in the group, I get no search results because search engines can't data mine the facebook group.

Actually, I kinda like how I can use Google, Bing, etc, to data mine steamboats.org for historical fact, whereas I can't do that to the many facebook steamboat groups. I can go to those groups in Facebook and search them directly, but for research, that takes much longer than using Google. Plus facebook postings can be difficult to find when they get buried.

So there are good things, and bad things...

At any rate, I too wish .ORG was still the most convenient way to post and share, and I thank Franz and Carmen for providing this forum for so many years. It will always be a great resource.

I just wanted to let you all know, I check this board almost daily. I'm fascinated by the information, the stories and the pictures. I hope this board never goes away. I'm not a fan of Facebook either but I am on it once in a great while. Mostly, when I see something here that points me to it. I don't post a lot because the only things I know, I have learned here for the most part but I am here.

Anyway, I just want to say thank you to all of you for being here and posting. By the way, I haven't seen a "live from the levee" lately, we're due. Thanks again.

Robbie

Rob re: Live from...

That's because I haven't been on the levee since August! I had a NOLA trip planned for November but cancelled because I just was too tired of not being at home - I wasn't necessarily out of town, but I was so busy I spent very little time in my house. But come the end of March, I'll be heading back down there!

Why...

Over a week and just one posting, 148 views on the DQ Memories page. Hate Facebook all you want, but then support this board by posting. If you don't have memories pre 90, surely you have some questions about that era....Last time I'll comment on this lament.

Yes Judy, but the postings over here are more scholarly!!
🙂

Jim,

I'd love to provide a plattform for these pictures here on steamboats.org.

The key issue with this is copyrights ... There is no way I can make sure all pictures posted are okay regarding copyrights. So this would be a huge liability risk. Facebook has herds of good lawyers (and the money to pay them) - I don't, unfortunately.

Franz

Ja, wir verstehen!!!!

Franz, I think we all understand the limitations one non-billionaire person has in providing a website, and we're grateful for this wonderful forum. My gripe is that those griping about my Facebook site and wanting more on here are griping and not doing any informative posting themselves on here. As I posted recently after a week of inactivity, perhaps they don't have memories pre-1990 to share or pix to post, but don't they at least have questions or comments to continue the thread I started after Jim's initial posting? As Bob pointed out, it is disheartening to post and then get no response to your effort. Yes, we can see the number of people who have viewed a posting, but when that posting apparently doesn't kindle any further interest, why bother? Sadly the majority of our previously active members have probably gone completely to Facebook and other platforms, but we've got a very knowledgeable group still here... I don't look to rack up hundreds of 'likes', but it would be nice to see that someone else is interested in what I've posted through them adding to the thread - or starting their own thread on a topic. Beating a dead horse, I guess!

Fortunately not a dead horse at all, Judy 😉 I've just checked the statistics for the recent three years and traffic has just slightly gone down. So there are still a lot of people visiting steamboats.org (and especially the message boards). It's about 7.000 people monthly, that's a couple of hundred per day.

So my suggestion is that over the recent years, Facebook has just added to the places people visit, and maybe some other sources as well. I guess people are reading more sources but commenting less as a result from that, dealing with a limited time budget.

That, of course, is just a guess, but similar behavior can be observed all over the Internet. Doing a quick "like" on Facebook or firing a quick three-word-comment on twitter is much easier than writing a good comment on a message board. It's information overload everywhere ...

Likes and Replies

Hi Judy and Franz,
I love this page and use facebook as well. I refer many to these pages for correct and accurate information on boats an d the river. I just seldom post, due to my lack of knowledge or right to answer the questions. I don't frequent too many facebook boat pages, due to the wild stories that fly on there. I love how I can come here and get the facts and enjoy a great read. Please don't ever feel your or any ones posts here are unloved. For they are very much cared for.
Ed

Franz....I wish I understood copyright law. One thing I know pretty much about is the Howard photo collection. If you see a Howard photo on the Howard web site you will see it is copy righted by Howards, the same picture on the Murphy Library site is copyrighted by them, and the same photo on the University of Louisville site is copy righted by them, same is true for that exact same image on the Cincinnati library site. Most of the photos posted are in such general circulation and so old it would seem they would be like old songs, in the public domain. I think the real concern is they don't want someone to make money using images from their site, like someone publishing a book of the "Complete Howard Collection" using images they got for free by downloading from the web site. I guess it would take a room full of Philadelphia lawyers to figure it out.