Topic starter
19/04/2007 4:49 pm
Hi,
This is my first posting to the board, but I've been reading here for about a month as we've prepared to sail on the Empress of the North to Alaska - a life long dream! You certainly have a wealth of knowledge and experience here, and the passion shown for steamboating among the users is truely inspiring.
I've read over the past 2 days in various on-line locations about the norovirus outbreak on the Empress which took place in March 07 and see that there is now a post on this board called, "MAL story". I thought I had read everything that was published about the Empress prior to booking in early April, but now I've found the CDC website, which indicates that the Empress failed its inspection in Feb 07, scoring only 67 out of 100, with less than 85 considered to be failing. In addition, one passenger has posted her complaints about her recent Empress Columbia river journey on several on-line locations, including Trip Advisor, which address not only the norovirus outbreak, but also numerous issues with food quality, availability, and service.
I writing with the hope that someone else who has been on Empress since the Ambassador acquisition can post their reports about the boat. I know from experience in reading trip reports from other vacation locations that different people can have markedly different experiences and perceptions about the same vacation, boat, cruise, hotel, etc. I am hoping that this passenger sees the glass half empty and that general opinion is that the Empress sailings are wonderful experience. But, if that's not the case, I want to know also.
We chose this boat because of the wonderful things we had read about the boat itself as well as the ability to be right up close to the glaciers and wildlife, as opposed to the large cruiseship experience. However, we have paid lots of money to be on the trip, and while the scenery, ports, and boat are my main interests, I am expecting nice food and service to be a part of the experience.
Can anyone help? If you haven't been on the Empress since the AI acquisition, do you maybe know anyone who has?
I really appreciate any help you might be able to offer. Thanks...........
21/04/2007 12:31 am
Dear Maureen,
I take keyboard in hand to share with you my experience on the "Empress" and the effects of norovirus.
The "Empress' is a new and handsome boat. When I was the historian for two years the company was called American Steamboat, even though there was no "steam" in sight.
Your research concerning visiting Alaska is right on, the "Empress", when I was aboard " got as close to "wildlife' as possible by water.
Although I have heard from many travel agents and contacts from former passengers that the cruise is now drastically weakened in entertainment and cuisuine, the whales are still there.
I have reluctley decided to speak out becuase norovirus is nothing to be casual about.
Twice I hve seen the impact of this virus, first on the Princess cars on the Alaska railroad when I was the historian, and then again on the "Empress"
Norovirus is staggering in impact, you are hit wuth a severe abnominal pain and explosive vomiting.
I am surprised, after a score of 57 from the CDC, that the 'Empress" is still cruising.
If you have a person in your party who is over 60, consider consulting a MD prior to the cruise.
I have more information if needed.
Best of luck,
Old pirate
21/04/2007 2:40 am
Excuse me Bill, are you by chance also a doctor or trained in the medical profession? You appear to make some rather strong allegations against specifically the Empress.
Now unless you are also in medicine, I have some concerns about your posting. You appear to be saying that this issue with Norovirus is due only to the lack of care of specifically the Empress of the West.
Have you done any research to determine just how common Norovirus is in the cruise and travel industry? I take from your post that for some reason you are singling out this one boat. Isn't this misleading? I have friends that loved their cruise on the Empress and I have friends that presently call the Empress home. And as you can gather from this forum my life enjoyment is quite attached to the Empress's parent company...You have just made a powerful statement on the internet that will theoretically be there for all to read FOREVER and will be taken by some as indisputable fact. Have you done research concerning whether the amount of Norovirus outbreaks is greater in the domestic cruise industry versus a foreign flagged cruise industry?
Now I have been lucky in that I have never been on a vacation where Norovirus was an issue, and I know someday I will not be as lucky, as from what I read it is rather a common occurance in the travel industry. However, I have been on a vacation where Norovirus had been an issue a week before we arrived, and it was obvious the place had just been cleaned to within an inch of its life and was drop dead spotless. If the Empress is typical of the travel industry, I suspect this:
There isn't a cleaner cruise ship/boat in the world as of today! Doesn't that seem to be logical? And a cruise ship/boat can be brand new, never had a passenger on board and can still have a Norovirus outbreak on its first cruise, right?
If you want to give potential cruisers some advice, especially if people are concerned about gastro-intestinal issues, I suggest your one statement needs to be modified:
"At the least to not board ANY OVERNIGHT TRAIN OR CRUISE SHIP if you do not have TRAVEL INSURANCE covering your loss in the event of Norovirus or any other infectious disease during the vacation."
Isn't this really the issue you are trying to get across? And I will be the first to admit that I'm not even close to being a Norovirus expert either...
And Maureen, I fully admit that I have never stepped foot on the Empress, however I do know some of MAL's other boats. And if you search the internet it is very easy to find someone that is dissatisfied about everything and anything. I would recommend you look for the ratio of satisfaction to dissatisfaction of a product or service as a true indication of what is being provided. There is an infamous review of the DQ from a gentlemen, still on the net, first posted in the late 1990's...Lets just say that I'm glad I first read it AFTER my first DQ cruise...
21/04/2007 2:53 am
Bruno Krause;5174 wrote: There is an infamous review of the DQ from a gentlemen, still on the net, first posted in the late 1990's...Lets just say that I'm glad I first read it AFTER my first DQ cruise...
On steamboats.org??? Do you have a link to that review?
21/04/2007 3:10 am
No, it was on one of the larger travel organization's cruise review side links. Sorry I don't remember which one, but I still come across it from time to time. You cannot believe what is on the internet if you get deep enough into google or youtube. For instance I just found this, and I suspect some dot.orgers were there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUrYiWUdDcU
My apologies to Maureen for completely highjacking her thread... and Pete, dot.org didn't exist in the 90's did it?
21/04/2007 3:55 am
Bruno Krause;5177 wrote: No, it was on one of the larger travel organization's cruise review side links. Sorry I don't remember which one, but I still come across it from time to time. You cannot believe what is on the internet if you get deep enough into google or youtube. For instance I just found this, and I suspect some dot.orgers were there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUrYiWUdDcU
My apologies to Maureen for completely highjacking her thread... and Pete, dot.org didn't exist in the 90's did it?
Ahh, you are right...I think i came here in 2001 or 2002!
Yes, my apologies Maureen for the hijack there...
21/04/2007 10:20 am
Bruno,
The norovirus is not only common in the cruise and hotel industry but also in hospitals, nursing homes, kindergartens, schools and everywhere during the winter season. It´s simply that the cruise ships have to report an outbreak to the CDC.
A norovirus outbreak can happen easily and is also common on cruise ships which have passed the health test. On our recent cruise on the Grandeur of the Seas we were asked at check-in if anyone of us has been ill with any kind of vomitting or diarhea during the last three days prior to the cruise. Any kind of this should have been reported to the medical department if it occurs throughout the cruise.
The health test is on a volunteer basis. So if a ship fails the test it is bad PR but noone can stop this ship from cruising. From the PR side of this incident MAL should react quickly and have another test done after they changed things.
Carmen
21/04/2007 10:23 am
Well, in fact steamboats.org was started in 1996, but the message board started end of 2001.
Franz
Topic starter
21/04/2007 3:48 pm
Bruno, my original posting addresses exactly the information you presented in your last paragraph. I cannot find recent (MAL owned) reviews of the Empress, except from the one negative reivew that I referenced. Like I said originally, I know that some people have bad experiences on the same vacations that others love, and that I'm hoping that this particular reviewer views the glass half empty (and I"ve recently found that she has posted negative reviews about several of her vacations). I research all of our trips very thoroughly. I believe it's relatively hard to find reviews on the Empress because only 230 people on her each week, compared to a large cruise ship where 2500 people sail each week. If anyone can direct me to current reviews, I'd appreciate it, because I'm looking for the persepective that comes from reading several reviews. Thank you, - Maureen
21/04/2007 8:10 pm
Dear Bruno,
You are funny, and may you experience norovirus soon.
I have only passed on to Maureen the information from "The Oregonian" and other sources such as CDC.
Perhaps this is just a "lets shoot the messenger" event.
Remember those who use these boards are looking for information, not a cheerleader for the industry.
21/04/2007 8:29 pm
Maureen- I applaud your efforts to review current information but I don't know that someone's else's review of anything including movies or books had much sway on my own decisions. I love to read them but don't let them influence me very much.
You said it yourself- some people love it and some people hate it and they are on the same boat at the same time.
One aspect that I think is important is to not compare it much with blue water cruises or large cruise ships. It is similar to comparing a Bed & Breakfast to a large luxurious hotel. Both may be excellent choices but the experience is very different.
Carmen has a journal posted on this website somewhere of her experiences with the boats in the Pacific Northwest. She writes excellent reviews. Yes, it was the previous owners. But most times new owners to any business actually make an effort to try even harder to please than old owners.
Also, Carmen's comments about novovirus (I may have spelled it wrong) are accurate. Hospitals, Child Care Centers, even Airplanes can be just as likely to spread the virus. The servers on board the boats did have to earn Safe Serve certificates from the US Food and Drug or FDA. Whether they were always current or not, I cannot say. I will say this. After taking the test and getting 100% on something I thought was easy, I realized that some of my co-workers did not score as high as I did. But their lower scores were because of their literacy failings and not because of their habbits or knowledge of how to safely handle food. I learned something from that.
I am also a big advocate of trying new things- new adventures are something that I thrive on. Then, I am perfectly willing to offer my opinions. So, I look forward to hearing YOUR review after your cruise.