Licensing Requirements

Jim,
I think what you have outlined is pretty accurate for someone who wants to be a pilot on a commercial towing vessel. Until recently I think someone with a 200-Ton (or more) Masters license with a towing endorsement could operate a commerical tow, without having to sit as a steersman and be evaluated.
I got my 100-ton Masters license last year, and most of what you have outlined applies, except the radar and firefighting was combined into the main course at the RiverSchool. I think you can still log your own watch hours for a 100-ton license, and you need 360 eight-hour underway days. You also need 3 character reference letters from licensed officers, and they scrutinize your birth certificate and social sucurity cards. I had to get a new birth certificate printed from Indiana Dept of Health, and a new social security card. Jim, are you going for a license, or an upgrade?

The requirements you guys are talking about pertain to towing vessels. The regulations are different for tonnage license 500 and above. There is not any steering time required to obtain the any gross ton license. Never was. Service time in different areas of the deck department is all that is required aboard an any gross ton vessel. Most of the DQSC mates that were there for years obtained a master agt without being in a formal steering program and without a steering training statement on their letter.
For many years I tried to obtain an any gross ton masters and was unable to do so from a towboat. Yet I took 40 loads down river from Cairo to NOLA for years. Being that towing vessels are not inspected vessels, the time was not accepted for the inspected license. The required round trips were accepted for first class pilot but that only.
Jim Davis

Jim, you are right, those requirments are for towing vessels, but it is my understanding they are not issuing pilot licenses anymore with the possible exception of the lower Miss. below Baton Rouge. The COI of the D.Q. used to require two licensed pilots, so I would assume that still holds true. You are correct you could get a Masters license by going the route of Mate first and would not have to have a pilots certificate,but legally a master could not stand a pilot watch.
Does anyone know....did the big E have a pilots license, if so over what stretch of the river?

While it is true that pilot licenses are not issued any more, the requirements detailed above apply to a "towing endorsement". The licenses required for working on a towboat are "Mate of Towing Vessels" or "Master of Towing Vessels".

Big E's License

The BIG E, Captain Ernest E. Wagner, did NOT have a Pilot's License. That was by design and not any reflection upon his ability, for he was one of the finest handlers, bar none, of the DELTA QUEEN. Cap did not want a Pilot endorsement for he feared that he would have to stand a Pilot's Watch, towboat-style, in addition to his other duties as Roof Captain and Champion of Goodwill aboard the QUEEN.

My experience was the reverse of Captain Wagner's. I discovered early on, that I was not a handler. That is a skill learned by the young and daring. I was unable to develop that carefree disregard of other peoples' property that allows a young man to slam and bang about while learning. In short, I was too cautious.
Learning the marks, lights, mileages and obstructions was not hard for me, but maneuvering around in a fleet was beyond my abilities.
As for managing the men and smoozhing the passengers, I was OK, I guess.
A master of a passenger-carrying boat must know all three.
These are excuses. The true reason for my failure as a riverman is - I just don't like coffee!

Hi Guys,

From the perspective of a young man working towards obtaining his license one day, all the new regulations from the CG are very discouraging. I think the towing industry sees that there isn't the interest there once was in young people coming up through the ranks and becoming mates, pilots, or masters. With the numbers decreasing of those entering the river as a career choice, and the numbers of those retiring from the river on the rise, I for one find it very interesting that the CG has seemingly made it more difficult to obtain a license. It also sounds like my approach to getting my license may not qualify. I've got time on deck and in the pilothouse of excursion boats and an attraction vessel with the time documented by letter from the boats masters (no log book enteries). My plan was to get the remaining time I needed from operating my own towboat under a recreational endorsement until I get enough time (only using the boat for recreation). Then the plan was to switch the boats endorsement to commercial and put the boat to work doing harbor or other river work since I would then have my license. Just from what I have seen and experienced on the river shows me that the more time at the sticks or wheel of different boats operating in different conditions is an unvaluable education and it certainly needs to be part of getting a license, but some of the requirements seem a bit much. Hopefully there are future generations who are willing to do what it takes because the impact on the economy without a towing industry would be hard to imagine.

Coffee Mugs

I've seen Big Cap take the AVALON and DELTA QUEEN from a pilot, or two, who were getting into trouble, and that is where his ability behind the sticks became evident. Of course, he was just as knowledgeable in the engine room and on deck if he had to be, but he preferred the freedom of being the Roof Captain. Reckon the man was just the best all-around steamboat man as anyone could be. Still, if I could, I'd rather be Cap'n Wagner's Mate than master of any boat.

Alan, you do have a problem with your coffee situation, for the bitter brew plays a definite role in the life of most successful riverman. Considering your memorable success on the river, I am surprised by your candid confession.

Two memorable coffee tales I recall are:
Robert "Preacher" Lollar, one of the best coal-firemen, ever, on the river, boiled his coffee until it became so strong it created a permanent stain in a new china cup. A cuppa Preacher's java stamped such a memorable impression upon my palate that I will always "taste" that stalwart brew, sipped on a cold morning in the engine room of the AVALON, whenever I recall that grand old steamboat man who first worked for Captain Tom Ryman on the Cumberland River in the late 19th Century.

When the PRESIDENT came to Cincinnati for the 1988 Tall Stacks, I was with Captain Doc Hawley, Chief Gary Frommelt, and other dignitaries in the engine room of the Port Wheel. It was also the time that I "quit coffee" for several months. Of course, I was offered a fresh cup of the Chief's brew that I declined, and to this day I regret my refusal of that generous offer. It wasn't the coffee, itself, for I doubt that it was as memorable as Preacher's brew, but it was the failure of my participation in the ritual of the cup that I lament.

Speaking as a non-swimming passenger/crew member who has no license nor intends to get one: the new regulations are certainly cumbersome for the towing industry's candidates. My main concern, however, regarding the lack of a first-class pilot license above Baton Rouge, is that no matter how much training one has, no matter how well one knows how to handle their vessel, if one doesn't know the stretch of river on which they are traversing, bad things can happen(they could happen anyway, I know). But as a passenger on the DQ over the years I certainly could sleep at night knowing we had such stalwart first-class pilots who knew where they were going, such as: Walter Karnath, Rip Ware, Ray Pritchard, Charlie Fehlig, Bill Foley, Norman Hillman, Harry Louden, Howard Tate, Arthur MacArthur, Art Zimmer, Buddy Muirhead, Lexie Palmore, etc. etc. and now Jim Davis, Butch Karnath and the current, oops, recent group of Queens' pilots. And on the NATCHEZ: Sam Centanni, Steve Nicoulin, Verne Streckfus, Finley Fraser, Troy Delaney, Don Houghton...To not have to know the area while carrying up to 1600 lives in your hands is uncalled for and a grievous mistake on the CG's part.

What are the requirements for obtaining the proper license to stand a pilot watch on the DQ, MQ, and AQ? I know the steps I outlined are for a candidate seeking a towing license, but which license covers a high tonnage passenger boat pilot? I really don't know any more.

Jim,
I'm sure Jim Davis or Roger can answer this precisely, but a while back I saw a classified ad in the Waterways Journal seeking pilots for the DQ, and it stated that the minimum requirement for entry level was a 100-Ton Western Rivers license. I presume that person would stand watches under pilots with the proper tonnage for the DQ, until they have enough underway hours to upgrade their license for the tonnage, and also upgrade to Western Rivers "and Inland". I will of course stand corrected, if this is incorrect!

Regardless how hard it gets to obtain a license, we must keep in mind the one thing that counts, license don't pilot boats, they are only in place to make the pilot legal. Believe me, when I obtained my first set of license I was far from being a pilot. I thought I was and worked hard to become one. There were many night while I was at home, I sit at the kitchen table a looked at charts and hand sketched them over and over and over again to know exactly what was where. My wife at the time insisted that if I continued, she would leave me. My mother told me when she saw me at this many times that if I had applied myself as much while I was in school, I could have made a fine brain surgeon. After so much work at home and aboard the vessel, I put all of my notes on a computer disk. This was before Bill Gates came out of his garage and some 5 years later he put of Microsoft 1.0 that blew me away. This bar book became the first electronic system to be used in navigation on western rivers. Being the kind of guy that I am, I made copies for my friends and latter when vessels started putting computers on the boats, 85 percent of the Lower Mississippi River Towing vessels ran this bar book. Every Light, dike, sand bar, wreck, bridge and high line. The pointways were of interest to many, because by leaving out of the channels and crossing the bars and running behind the islands away from the sail line, we were able to make faster speeds and burn less fuel. The companies benifited from this by having products move at a cheaper rate. Today, I still tote the information with me every where I go and every trip there is more and more information added.
What I'm trying to say here, is having a license does not make one a pilot. It's all the extra hard work you put into it and the love for navigation that makes one a pilot. Never in any other occupation will you find so much pride in doing a good job.

The basic problem with the Coast Guard, Judy, is that they are deep-sea men. In general they are highly intelligent and thoroughly trained - for ocean work. No Coastguardsman can believe that the Ohio River does not stand on end, like the North Atlantic, nor can they conceive of navigating without a compass. Today, their reliance on charts and electronic navigating devices is ill-advised. No chart, whether on paper or from a satellite, can tell a pilot about the sets of the currents at lock approaches, nor does it describe the differences between going up- or down-stream and it darned seldom shows the wind. The Coast Guard has never adjusted to the fact that the bottoms of the rivers are so close to the surface, nor do they know the effects of shallow water on moving vessels. The problem is ignorance, not stupidity.

I steered the Delta Queen, by invitation, for about two hours one night. The river was presented on moving charts that indicated the sailing line, the buoys and the boat. There was a working depth-finder. The river was deep and wide and there was practically no traffic. Yet two hours was more than enough! I'd rather look out the window.

Requirements for Mates License

There is no different license required for passenger boat operation as compared to other non-towing vessels. The minimum license required would be "Mate of Steam Vessels of Any Gross Tons Upon Inland Waters". (I am assuming the registered tonnage of the DQ is more than 1600 tons.) The minimum requirement for this license is 3 years service in the deck department of similar vessels with six months being required to be in postions such as bosun or steersman. The minimum requirement for a Master's license is one year of service as a Mate. The exact requirements can be found in 46 CFR 10.437 and 46 CFR 10.435

Homer LeMay ran a couple of harbor boats here at Louisville. I visited him one day and he said, "Have a cup of coffee."
I protested, "Homer, I'm not fond of coffee."
He came back with, "Well, you've got to have something."
So he boiled some water and I put some coffee dust in a cup followed by some cream dust and a couple of spoons of sugar. Homer poured himself a cup of hot water and put in two teaspoons of sugar - nothing else.
I asked, "Aren't you going to have coffee?"
"Naw," he replied, "I can't stand the stuff."

On my first river job I was a deckhand and texas tender. The latter job involved keeping the pilots supplied with coffee. Both liked chicory blended into the cup. Two pots were kept on the range, one full of coffee, the other with chicory. I was obliged to learn the precise amounts of each for each pilot.

Alan, you are way more than OK at schmoozing the passengers! When our old and dear friend Doc couldn't make it, you were able to step in for him as guest lecturer last spring on the Delta Queen for the Belle of Louisville Race cruise, and you thoroughly delighted the passengers with your stories and memories. Your presentations were so well informed and well received - they seasoned the cruise with just the right flavor for our annual return to the Ohio River. Everyone was impressed and fell head over heels over you, me included, and I can only hope we'll have the pleasure of your presence onboard again soon.

I just ordered "Coalhouse Water" and eagerly await my copy to arrive. When I see you again, I hope I'll have it with me for you to autograph!

Gee whizz, Jazzou!
Doc is hoping the two of us can be guest lecturers together some time.

We'll just see about that, Alan! What a treat it would be.

Character References

Hey guys I just recently sent in my application for the apprentice steersman license but I'm missing the 3 character references from licensed wheelmen. I had got a paper from The River School in Memphis that tells you how to format it but I left it at the house when I came to the boat this time. I'm due off Tuesday and I'd like to get that paper printed out and ready so I can have my wheelhouse crew sign it for me. If anyone knows how to format it or possibly knows a website link with some examples that would be great!

Thanks!

Chad,
The RiverSchool's web site has a sample Microsoft Word document with the suggested form of character reference letters. It is here: http://www.riverschool.com/Character%20letter.doc

Long, long ago, almost in another world, I went on a kick and got my genuine USCG Master's License for near coastal waters. The really interesting thing about that license was that at that time, it was also good for navigation on the Western Rivers and for Operator of Uninspected towing vessels regardless of tonnage. Now think about the implications of that license. In theory, I could operate a tow on the lower Mississippi or most other rivers without ever having set foot on a tow before and/or without any time at all as a crew member on a brown water boat. No company would be foolish enough to hire me and I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to believe I could do it but it was legal. I think there was a hole in the licensing structure that needed to be fixed but with typical bureaucratic nonsense, the CG has gone way beyond what needed to be done. I think I could still legally be master of tonnage vessels on the rivers but what a fiasco that would be.

It should be difficult to obtain a license but not nearly impossible and horribly expensive. There should be room for hawspipe promotions as well as attending academies. I don't recall who said that the USCG has a blue water mentality but I think that is right on the money.

FWIW: Having jumped through the hoops and gotten the piece of paper, I stand in awe of the pilots I have met on the DQ and on this list who are truly deserving of the title Captain.

Bear

Licensing Requirements

Jim ,
Its my understanding , that there is yet still a CG , First Class Pilot's license but only is applicable for required " pilotage waters " . I am not sure about elsewhere , but here on the Lower Mississippi River from Baton Rouge on down to the Sea Buoy , a First Class Pilot's License still does exists and is renewed every five years , as was before . Also , the last time I renewed my Pilot's license , I actually came out of the CG's office with what I went in with , a First Class Pilot's License from Pilot Town , on the Lower to Cincinnatti , on the Ohio . So go figure the Coast Guard , that could all arbitrarly change tomorrow !!
Smoothe Sailing !
Ted

" Right On " Brother !

Jim ,
As always , your right on and I just wonder how many out there either don't realize that or for that matter , choose not to ! Futhermore , what its like to work on a boat , any boat , with a licensed "charleton " , who has the license but not the experience or the ability or the desire to perform his designated duties !
Smoothe Sailing !
Ted