'New' European River Cruise Line Announced.

Dale,

The first announcement sounded interesting. Later the name of the ship they want to use was revealed. I was a bit wondering because the only ship I was able to find with this name is an old KD (later Viking) ship built in 1971. I´m wondering if $3.5 Million can make a luxury cruise ship out of this one. I know how they were built. And the only way to make this a luxury ship would be to strip the whole boat and rebuilt the whole interior. An old KD ship (although refurbished) of the same time period has basins in the cabin (not the bathroom) and you can even hear your neighbor whisper in his cabin.

Carmen

I hope that this new European cruise line is not taking a page out of MAL's play book; you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Putting bath robes in a stateroom and changing mattresses does not equate to luxury river cruising!

Hi, Steamboating colleagues:
Frank, I agree. As you and I well know the recent 'grand luxe' touches with bath robes, computer jacks, entertainment centers, mini bars in cabins, cigar bars, wine bars, fancy spas, sensual sheets/pillow cases and comforters, photo centers etc. is nothing new to either MAL vessels or the ships you and I are familiar with. It's been a trend for some time now in the hotel/resort/cruise ship/boat market. 'Niche' marketing seems to be the new by-word of the day taken to higher levels. In the end somebody pays for it and that 'somebody' is the traveling public with the 'disposable income' so sought after. At times I wonder if all of these ship/boat lines, hotels etc. haven't hired the same consulting firms? Sure looks like it when you see the new cuisine offerings mentioning so and so consultant and then click them on line. After the first experience years back we've returned to the traditional seatings for dinner ignoring what is touted as 'open dining.' Never eaten yet in one of the upsacle 'theme restaurants' aboard for the added charge. More trouble than it was worth and the family group enjoys the same wait staff. I gagged recently reading where one line now permits 'blue jeans' in the dining rooms in the evening. I haven't been to a midnight buffet in years. Guess I just an old, crabby man.

We've noticed in recent years the big cruise lines placing the luxe bath robes in cabins. Last year, on one unnamed big line, I saw there were no robes inside as in previous voyages. I asked the room steward [Now also called 'Butlers'] where the robes were. "Oh, they became more of a problem in purchasing, laundering than worth it. Now we only supply them when the passenger makes a request." Any one of us would be millionaries just supplying the basic towels and wash cloths, not to mention bathroom paper and tissue for these ships.

Frank, you're a frequent CUNARD traveler. What are the luxe perks you've had/seen aboard? JEWEL RIVER CRUISES in Europe indicate they will market heavily to the North American clintele. Carmen, I well remember the KD vessels from years back. You nailed it perfectly. The Yangtze river boats in China my family have experience have also thrown their hat in the same ring as above. Well, what do I know?

Cheers,
R. Dale Flick

"Nicked" market is more like it... last summer my Town Suites by Marriott room had SIX pillows on the one bed. The first thing I did was stuff 5 of them in the closet and I left a note for the maid, butler, whoever, to leave them in there and not clutter up my room again. Geez, I suppose that luxury upped my bill a few bucks a night. Just curious, but who on this board has ever been part of a focus group or marketing survey or whatever regarding the future trends in cruising??? I've never mentioned it before, but last year one DQ crew member told me that he had heard that the future of the DQ would be as a true luxury vessel, with only 50 or so (49 maybe) overnight pax. That would entail basically gutting the cabins as is and using a current 3 rooms for 1 new one - similar to what was done with Skid Row back in 1984.

Steamboating colleagues:
"Nicked" is right, Judy, and I like that. More bed pillows and now something like '450' threads per inch on the sheets and pillow cases. The only river vessel 'focus group/marketing survey' I recall vividly was the one Betty Blake did leading up to the design of the then new MISSISSIPPI QUEEN. I wish now I'd copied or saved one as it was quite extensive with many items to consider with space to add comments. Seems to me now it was at least two pages and I 'think' on legal sized paper. One item I remember was the one asking for input on a 'Swimming pool/Sauna/Gym equipment.' Some people wrote in about a 'Library or reading room,' 'Dining room high with views out over the river.' If there were questions about passenger cabins I've long forgotten. Food offerings were mentioned and I think I checked or inked in, "Keep traditional on old steamboat lines but consider new requirements for diets and health trends." Another many passengers indicated was "Free open decks to walk around." Well, it didn't work out that way, did it? I wrote nothing about entertainment I can recall but did mention a "Separate show room." Another was for "Easy access inside of the boat for passenger movement during bad weather." This not the case for many cabins on the DQ. Never bothered me but many have groused over it.

Some surveys have come my way from various blue water cruise lines but not as extensive. I had/have the feeling the 'big boys' with the mega ships run past passenger suggestons and complaints through a computer and then hand over to consulting firms commanding high prices. CUNARD LINE did send me one when they were planning the then new QE-2 and it seemed, as I recall, to focus on designs for the ship for both Atlantic and cruise service. I'd been on old QUEEN MARY and old QUEEN ELIZABETH prior to that. Cabin Class, mind you, not First as too expensive and at that young age then you didn't need it. Cabin and Tourist was where the fun was in those days.

Most interesting insight on the DQ as a possible low capacity luxe vessel. Carmen mentioned above about the cabins on the KD boats and "hearing people in the next cabin." Believe-it-or-not, the same thing happened on the MISSISSIPPI QUEEN in her early days. The MUROC insulated wall panels between cabins were slipped into place with moldings applied at the seams. The cabin I had on the shake-down cruise, July, 1976, was nice but you could not only near voices in the next cabin but see light coming through and people walking around at the head of your bed. In time it was repaired and fortunately I knew the people in the next cabin.

Cheers,
R. Dale Flick

"Ain't the Old Greene Line..."

Captain Albert Kelly had that right.

How'd you like to have to make those boat run efficiently and never be asked for a suggestion or opinion, and when one is presented, be shot down because it differs from the vision of the one "asking".

The deluxe 49-pax concept has merit, but what they haven't revealed is that after the boat arrives at its destination, it is then "converted" to a 400-passenger excursion boat for a few days to pick up that extra revenue before re-gilding the lilly and turning the boat back around into a luxury ship.

Judy, I've been invited to participate in TWO Majestic American Line surveys. I answered both of them, the first about which rivers and destinations that I as a NEW PASSENGER/CUSTOMER was interested in, and the the second one about why Deb and I have NEVER CRUISED WITH MAL and basically why not? The last one surprisingly arrived THIS MORNING...Both made me laugh, out loud, and cry a bit (when you think of Deb and me and how absolutely silly the main thrust of the survey was) and in the answers to both where I was allowed to embellish I told them what I thought of their absolutely screwed up database. And it's funny, this morning's survey came to my office computer/e-mail address, with nothing coming through to my home address or Deb's work e-mail address. What is it about M/E Engineering that just makes these people salivate? 🙂

I answered both of them as clearly as I could, keeping my German sarcasm to a dull roar, or so I thought. They are nice enough, both times to offer a $100 rebate to a future booking on any MAL's boats. Hey, I'll take it!

What else do you want to know about 'em?

I shall add after rereading Shipyard Sam's post that both surveys were very 'leading' in their questions and only the survey I got today were there places to embellish if the answer was 'other', if you catch my drift. All the questions on both were horribly biased toward what the company is hoping to do, sort of "we made this decision, and we're trying to see if we are right, we're MAL we must be right, you SHALL like it!". The first was about Mississippi River Basin destinations, and it was obvious that Chattanooga and the Tennessee River were to be eliminated as those destinations were not anywhere to be found as answers. Guess what?

The second survey, this morning was all about elegance and how important that "stuff" is to our cruising decision. And you got it, questions about linens, and toiletries, and stuff I don't really give a rat's about. But I had some fun this morning venting...I told them to re-examine their opinon on what their true FLAGSHIP is and to take the appropriate steps, very quickly to assure she remains MAL's flagship. I also indicated that it was time they actually set foot on the boats, take a cruise for kryst's sake, saddle up with a PSSOA passenger, buy 'em a beer and start pumping him with questions...

Well, that's probably the LAST survey you'll get from MAL!!!

Hi, Judy, Bruno & steamboatong colleagues:
Bruno, Judy is right about "...the LAST survey you'll get." Bruno's two surveys are interesting...and telling. I've read on this web a number of past passengers indicating that they 'never' received any follow inquiries, past passenger communications, ID numbers while others mentioned they do receive them. I've not been aboard any of the DQ boats since 1992 and, therefore, am out of the loop...POOF!...Zilch. The big marketing/consulting companies to hotels/resorts/cruise ships/boats are a savvy bunch and it's so obvious you can sense and smell it within an hour of mounting the gangway. Passenger surveys I've filled out can be extensive up to five pages covering all from A to Z on the ship. Also requested are: number of cruises, what lines, age, income category, hobbies, cultural interest, education, future travel plans etc. 'Demographics' by means of computerization has all of us pegged and good from our U.S. zip codes on down. 'Big brother' in action. Bruno, MAL probably salivated when they saw your business involvement. Some big lines do large group incentive packages for companies, business, social, academic and medical conventions aboard. I know of one steel fabrication company here who each year chartered cabins for about 200 employees as a fringe benefit. Two big ocean lines I know well have it down to the point where we receive via E=Mail birthday, Christmas and wedding anniversary congratulations...followed with the suggestion to "Book that big family event soon." I just received today from an unnamed line leading to our cruise in February that I can "Book your visit to the health spa for refreshing sea weed treatments and skin revitalization." Some lines at sea now have installed dental clinics where passengers can have "Teeth whitening treatments." The offerings at a nice $$ go on and on. I do use the ship's gym and usually sign up for the bicycle 'Spinner' classes at a small charge. I think you all get the idea concerning 'target marketing' and grand luxe offerings. Remember, there are deck after deck of fine boutiques, clothing shops, jewelery stores, perfume, Duty free liquor/booze and now on-board art galleries and even antique shops. Makes the head dizzy and your wallet flatten if you're so inclined...which I'm not.

I pulled out some old menus of 40 + years ago on the old QUEEN ELIZABETH & QUEEN MARY and am astounded at the offerings of food reading like the Manhattan phone directory. This has been paired down considerably in recent years due to expense and changes in eating habits. A number of food offerings are only prepared at sea out of territorial waters due to U.S. Public Health laws for cream sauces, egg dishes, some fish etc.

Never dreamed this thread would elicit so many comments and great information. Well, what do I know?

Cheers,
R. Dale Flick

I forgot yesterday RE: those plush, fluffy monogramed robes in the cabins. I learned two years in a row that if you want robes in your cabin...and like them [Hint, Hint]...you can purchase them with all added to your bill at the end of the cruise. As past passengers we receive free Internet access in the ship's Internet Cafe...that was until recently when an announcement was made that "access by passengers is limited to one hour a day." Earlier AOL had cafes on some ships carrying a cost per minute.

Nah, I'm not worried. There are a bazillion Bruno Krause's in New York, right? I suspect the dot.org Bruno and the "are you nuts?" Bruno are both buried too deep inside their limited database radar... 😉

Not only that, but I suspect that MAL will change marketing campaign companies when they don't receive the marketing answers they were hoping for. And this 'idiot' that they have surveyed twice in the past will become really lost in the shuffle.

So, I'm good to go...

As a former marketing "idiot"- you are correct Bruno.

But Judy is also correct in that whenever a company gets what they don't want to hear, they ignore it anyway. The surveys are just another way to keep a certain segment of the population employed (including me).

I think it is rather funny that every politician I have contacted responds back with their own version of a survey that is promtly ignored. Or am I being too cynical here? Well, sorry about that.

Years and years ago, I was on the board of directors in a community based organization who paid a small fortune to a marketing group to try and determine why the camp grounds were under-utilized. All they really had to do was ask the young children who did use the campground what the problem was. They did not want to go the toilet as a primitive hole in the ground in the woods. The thousands of dollars spent asking an expert the question could have better gone to getting toilets and plumbing installed. Needless to add, I quit the board and moved away.

Hi, Elaine, Bruno, Judy & steamboating colleagues:
I think you all are hitting the nail on the head very well. Usually such 'surveys' are constructed/assembled by, at times, outside consultants. We've all seen and experienced this as Elaine has pointed out. Consultants can run the range from A to Z; some better than others; some worse with most falling in between. The end result of the data collected is 'raw' and only as good as the consultants ability to interpret and write up in their findings. Some of these 'findings' can come as a shock to the corporate executives requesting it--especially if it focuses down on their own decisions and managment approach. "What, we made a mistake...we're being questioned?" A good true survey may start at the bottom but extends all the way to the top. Yep, the board room can be a pretty nice place to hang out for 'perks' along with those inter-locking seats on other corporate boards for at most a couple of days a month or quarterly. We used to say when an expensive consultant was brought in: "They get us enthused, take our ideas [Later pass them off as their own], stir up the pot enough and then fold their tents and steal silently away with their checks in hand leaving us to sort out the mess." No mistake, there are many fine, professional consultants and marketing services out there doing a great job. It can be the old mind set of the royal palace: You tend to give the king what he wants to hear when he's paying the bill to save your neck for the next contract down the road.

I well recall some years ago working in the gathering of massive survey materials to be analyzed. The day we trundled the sheets of raw data to the central offices I lingered and, upon leaving, heard from the front office to a secretary, "OH, h---, just take all of that stuff and put in the storage room in the basement." Need I say more? Many times we saw our suggestions written up without one change in wording or punctuation bearing the name of somebody in the central adminstration taking credit. Like they didn't know we'd read the final report. DUH! I've scars and brusies to prove it.

Cheers,
R. Dale Flick