Riverbarge Cancels 2009 sailings

Huck's River Raft Rides

Wow.... whatta shock! Sitting around the wood stove, up at the RH General Store, only the other day, some of us were saying, "What a blessing it is the RiverBarge is still running." And now this.

But let us not forget the TWILIGHT runs long trips on the Upper Mississippi with overnight stays ashore and back aboard the boat the next morning for the continuation of the cruise.

BB Riverboats had a cruise, not so long ago, like the T-Light's, and the Sternline Telegraph reports the possibility of a BB ride from Cincy to the upper reaches of the Ohio this coming year. But that just a rumor.

That Great River Raft idea makes more sense every day. The lumber is still floating in the back bay, though it's getting a little waterlogged, and all that's needed is a pup tent, fire pit, sweeps, and several adventurous souls to man the lot.

Yeah, the phone has been ringing a bit. Thank Gawd Discovercard is offering 5% cashback on airline tickets starting in January, so Deb and I have held back buying flights for our Riverbarge trip in July. And Deb and I had just about made up our mind to join friends on Phyllis's reunion Riverbarge cruise in December.

What is it about river cruises? Is it lack of advertising? It can't be the economy, as I can think of eleventy-seven river cruise companies that have gone backrupt over the past 9 years.

This just Stinks! and no, that is not the words I would like to use here...

JBS also

The JULIA BELLE SWAIN also does a few overnight trips, but not nearly as many as in her early LaCrosse years. Perhaps this is something they need to reconsider.

Why Not Here? About six moths ago I posted the question "Why Can't Riverboats Make it Here, When In Europe They Are Prospering?" Franz took down my posting saying he didn't want the discussion to interfer with the sale of MAL. Perhaps it might be time to revisit the subject. What about it Franz? Perhaps our posters could give any potential buyers some good ideas. It can't just be mismanagement, Eddie Conrad and his RIVERBARGE seemed to be a pretty sharp operation.

Maybe it's a good year for the BoL to repeat the Louisville-Madison (Carrollton)-Cincinnati (and return) trips like they ran to the last Tall Stacks festival. Only thing is that they'd need to arrange buses to transfer people from the boat to motels and back at either Madison or Carrollton (whichever has the most motels and restaurants). Some of us stayed at the Lake Butler State Park in Carrollton which had a good restaurant but we had to arrange our own transportation and there's only a very small taxi operation in Carrollton. I don't know the motel situation at Madison but I doubt that it has very many.

Or, maybe a BoL trip downriver to maybe Owensboro, Evansville, Henderson and Paducah might be an idea. They could depart early AM and tie up late afternoon or early evening. It's a pretty good haul from Louisville to Owensboro by river and I can't think of anyplace in between with enough hotels/motels to handle very many people.
Someone with more experience than me can comment on the feasibility of this. I suspect the travel times downriver are much faster than upriver due to the current so the schedule would likely vary quite a bit.

Or, maybe one trip in each direction with the first in the spring and the second in the fall. Maybe call 'em Daytime Tramping Cruises. Rates would vary depending on motel accommodations desired. Meals could be provided by a catering service with the Belle's own bar and snack bar also open.

Either way, the management of the trips would have to be more thorough than the Tall Stacks trips where the planners pretty much only covered the boat and it's activities. But the BoL has the ability to handle a lot of passengers (if wanted) and she's an authentic steamer which would appeal to those like me who crave steam powered vessels. There could be entertainers and historians aboard, too.

These could even be charter trips if the Belle's management doesn't want to get involved with all the extras beyond just operating the boat. It just seems that without any other boats offering cruises in 2009, there will be a lot of folks having river withdrawal symptoms and might just jump at these trips.

Any thoughts on the idea?

-Jim Herron

I don't think it's always mismanagement, but I think over-regulation is an expen$ive problem that hampers success. Too many expensive Coast Guard requirements, which have come forth from this law-suit happy society, of recent decades...

Oh yes, the Coast Guard reg's are good and well meant, but there are enough reg's to handle mariners for a while. We don't need more reg's for every accident, and more expensive gadgetry requirements just because an inventor invents them.

It's not just the Coast Guard, I'm just saying it's getting too expensive to sneeze, if you're a vessel owner. Sure, vessel ownership/chartering has always been expensive, but the mounting regulation costs of recent years cannot be ignored as a factor. A bad economy makes the problem much worse, of course.

It would be interesting to study the operating costs in Europe compared to here, and the costs of their reg's on their river industry, versus here. Probably find many of the same problems over there.

Just my thoughts...

I too was shocked yesterday to hear about the RiverBarge's cancellation.

That's sad about the RiverBarge. I've been telling some of the locals around here, "at least we'll have the RiverBarge to watch and photograph until the Delta Queen comes back."

And now, this.

I've always enjoyed chasing the RiverBarge up and down the river when she calls on my locale. It's a "site to see." I once went onboard for a short (and I do mean short) tour when she was docked in Clarksville, TN last year.

I don't feel that the Delta Queen's situation is tied to the economy, but I feel that the RiverBarge's is. People aren't booking because they don't have the extra money for luxuries. I read an article recently that said most of the hotels on the gulf coast are seeing significantly fewer advance reservations now (for spring and summer).

Hopefully, once things pick back up, we will see the RiverBarge plying the rivers again and the Delta Queen being bought and returning!

I am not an economist, but I did live through the so-called Great Depression (there was nothing "great" about it) and joined the work force in 1937. People still waited in lines for jobs and for food and shelter then. My family lost everything excepting the furniture. We were forced to manage, to use it up, wear it out or do without.

The present depression is not that bad. . .YET. In a depression the first hurt are the minimum-wagers, followed by those who did well and got caught in various financial traps (my family was in that class) and those are followed by the wealthy. When families are beset by job loss, etc., the first things to go are the un-necessaries, and they go at a loss. A trip on the RiverBarge is not a necessity. A second car is not a necessity. A new laptop every six months is not a necessity. When one is faced with a choice between eating and staying dry compared to a new pair of pants, they get out needles and thread. When vegetables cost too much they raise a garden.

We all mourn the demise of the Delta Queen, but overlook the immutable fact that she is a luxury, not a necessity. The RiverBarge, although not so luxurious as the Delta Queen, is also a thing that a family in trouble can live without.

Interest Rates and Riverboat Rides?

Although I missed the The Great Depression, though not by far, I was nurtured on stories about those hard times; maybe that's why I am so notoriously tight. My role models for financial frugality have always been my mother Anna Margaret and Cap'n CCH.

During some tight financial times, some years ago, but when the DELTA QUEEN was still being booked solidly, it may have been Cap'n Betty, herself, who told me that the Queen’s marketing was aimed at an affluent clientele.

"The rich don't have recessions," I remember hearing as I was made privy to a little known economic generalization concerning the high-rolling class. And I believed it.

The worst personal economic times I have personally experienced were from 1980 through 1987 when, being completely ignorant of the simplest sort of basic economics, I plunged totally into my own aluminum can recycling business and was too determined, or terrified, to quit though there were occasions when supper was pasta without the sauce we could not afford. I call those years the Reagan Recession.

The greatest difference, I see, between Mr. R's recession and Prez GW's present variety is interest rates. The mortgage on my Can-Do property, in 1983, was a lofty 18 1/2 percent, while anyone with money to invest could collect that much or more on their savings. Today's money market accounts are ground in at 1%, or less.

Perhaps the rich weren't affected so much back when I was let in on of their little-known secrets as their wealth increased from over-inflated interest rates some didn't mind spending on steamboat trips. Now that interest rates are at bilge level, even the affluent class may be reluctant to ride.

Sam, interesting take on the times...

Deb and I too, as are I believe most of the very early Baby Boomer generation, were raised from parents that grew up in the depression. My father had squeezing blood out of a penny down to a new art form, and I am forever thankful that he taught me those skills. Deb and I too are scary frugal, I will spend all afternoon fixing a broken $3 item, but I will admit that I enjoy it, it's me verus IT. And between our two cars is a combined 14 years of age and almost a quarter million miles, and one car is basically parked right now. Anyone want to admit how many of us have used hardware in mayonaise jars out in the garage?

I think one of the things today versus the Reagenomics Trickle Down fiasco is that jobs aren't anywhere near secure today as they were the 80's, in the 80's people were still entering a particular job for life, witness Kodak or General Motors, no such animal now. How many of us would predict then, even in the rough 80's, that General Motors would be in such tough shape today. I painfully remember those early 80's days, our first house in New York was a 9 1/2% adjustable rate negative amortatization, after three years we owed 5000 more on the house than when we bought it, but in those days, what were we to do? But job security, no problem then...today, especially right now?

The other thing that I feel is quite different about river cruising today versus Capt Betty's days is that people now take flying, flying anywhere as a given thing where in the 50's and 60's flying was for the very rich, or business people and then again it was only for the brave. Today there are so many choices of where to spend your vacation dollars that did not really exist 40 years ago, witness the explosion of Carribean cruising, and it's so easy to get there, all due to the cheapness, safety and ease of flying today. And the fact that flight costs to the Carribean are double what they are to Cincinnati somehow doesn't enter into the picture. When you get a great rate on a 7 night cruise to Barbados, the cost of the flight is ignored. And if that great rate is about the same as a DQ cruise, why in gawd's name would anybody give up the wave pool and the rock wall? And the rich, recession proof of the 60's that Capt Betty talks about? Today's equivalent wants something that they can brag about, it has nothing to do with if they had a good time...Deb and I actually had tablemates on the DQ, that rode the DQ for the first and admittedly only time strictly so they could cross it off their list, they were clueless to the uniqueness and could care less about the charms of the boat. She came to dinner with a Blackberry, punching away and firing mad at the boat because of no signal. My comment: Why did you think a Blackberry would be needed? We didn't talk much after that...

Obviously, I have my own take on this. I have always felt that the advertising of the AQ/MQ/DQ/RiverExplorer/CQ/etal has been so friggin' non-existant and when it was there it is poorly targeted and did very little to teach the uniquness of the product. In the ACV/DN heydays I thought this was a good thing, this way cruises never sold out, my selfishness...why in gawd's name did these companies not target, absolutely blanket AARP?

I think of all the people we cruise with on the DQ and AQ and I'm having a hard time picturing any of us as being anything but 'just making it', we seem to be a modest bunch. Now that could be because our cruise costs make us poor 🙂 but I'm not thinking so. When I worked through my retirement finances just before retiring a good 30% of my annual needs was to go to "entertainment", guess what that entertainment was to be...So my take on it is today's river cruiser is a tad more modest than Capt Beatty's days and a lot poorer than Majestic was hoping we would be. Does this make the boats recession proof? No, but I feel that even Majestic would still be operating today if they just hadn't changed anything, even with GWB's legacy...can you even imagine how much advertising could have been bought with the money spent on the robes, the million-thread count linens and pillowtop matresses? and I'd never heard anybody ever complain about the old sheets. My point...

So I leave with this thought, with a bad economy, it would have meant that Deb and I would cruise just a tad less, but give it up? No way. Witness that we still cruised despite Majestic getting greedy with the rates. We spent more, a huge bunch more on Majestic in 2008 than we did with Delaware North in 2005, and I had sensed the economy being a tad sourer in 2008 than the boom year of 2005...And I really didn't ever see "wealth" aboard the boats. Maybe I wasn't looking. Which always made me so mad with Majestic's fancy schmantzing of the boats and their absurd, silly, bass ackwards marketing strategy: "attract the richer, younger person". No such animal, oxymoron, even if there was, he or she wouldn't want to do anything at 5 MPH, or have to give up their Escalade in the process.

I personally think the best advertising slogan was the old "Voyages to America" because that's what it is. I had an interesting special assignment yesterday. Yesterday was a holiday for us city workers (day before & the day). I had a call about 9am from a city council member (who if not a friend, is at least someone I am familiar with) who had some investors from China who wanted to see the Chinese Temple. So I took 2 hours and drove into town and gave them a tour. These folks had just partnered with a local businessman and purchased a significant building & business here. Their American advisor was talking to me about the numbers of Chinese expected to be going "somewhere" as tourist in the next 10 years. The numbers were huge, and he was talking about how much tourism it could potentially bring to our community and California. He also talked about how many Chinese were looking to invest outside of their country, as things are slowing down there too.
Maybe there's another market we haven't even tapped?? Think about it: folks spend big bucks to go to Europe and do the rivers there, maybe so they can tell their friends/co-workers, etc. about their great vacation. OK, now how do you brag about your vacation to Kentucky, Mississippi, etc. ? These are not considered by Americans as being as "exotic" like the Rhine, etc. HOWEVER!! Maybe citizens in other countries have the same thoughts about their rivers? An American Steamboat trip to them would be "exotic" and they could brag about it to their social group!
Yes, this would radically change the make-up of the passengers, but it could keep the boats running, so???
Just some random thoughts while I contemplate preparing Christmas Dinner while Linda's at work (hospitals don't shut down for the holidays!).
Another thought too: Geting the DQ exemption passed is more critical in these times, as it makes her more valuable to a future operator. River cruising may not be happening this next year, but it can come back--if we prepare for its return!!
S'
David D.

Jim,
Look at my posting below--I think maybe the marketing was mis-directed--there's a whole world out there who would think cruising America's great rivers is unique, exotic, and interesting.
S'
David D.

I agree with David...How many of us have heard a 50ish or 60ish person say, when we are talking about the boats: "We've always wanted to do that!" Now talk to somebody 40ish and younger and their eyes glaze over anytime we start to talk about the DQ. They just aren't interested. Somehow I think turning 50 a switch clicks and you suddenly realize that speed and excitement aren't something needed 24/7, matter of fact it is to be avoided...

Which brings me back to AARP. The rich and famous don't give a rat's about AARP. AARP is for us poor folk trying to get by, looking for an entertainment medium that is relaxing, historic, quiet, and undemanding to get to, wouldn't that have been the perfect medium?

Voyages to America indeed! Or "yesteryear's travel, today"...

Bruno, Sam and Dave: All very good points. I think Bruno came closest when he mentioned the cheap Carribbean cruises, and the age factor. I had a 28-year-old pilot partner on a boat who took a 5 day Carribbean cruise and he and his wife NEVER, not once, ate in the dining room. They didn't want to get dressed up, and just ate at the numerous buffets, bar food, etc. and enjoyed themselves quite nicely! They would not and are not candidate for a river cruise, even the fact that he's a boat pilot notwithstanding. The key is the uniqueness of the product, and there are those who do/would enjoy it if they only knew about it. I remember a quote in an old magazine article, and they were interviewing Capt. Mary B. Greene. She said, "People think they know about the river in their own backyard, but I wonder if they really do?" I don't think that has changed much.

Mary Greene knew her stuff. I had a Louisville native ask me on a BoL trip, "What lake IS this anyway?"

Voyages to America

At the risk of repetition, I'd like to stress the point that the boats' schedules were not convenient for travel planning. For all of its other issues, DN was smart to base AQ in NOLA for those short trips. And I think a regular schedule for DQ from Cincy would also do well, following pattern of the traditional Kentucky Lake runs of yore. Then relocate the boat to another base for the next round trip series. Pittsburgh would be a good draw for those of us on the East Coast.

Bluewater cruises work this way. They don't board you in Miami and return you to Charleston. They run and stay put on a regular itinerary. Then shift home ports with the season and do it all over again.

Given the current credit market I'm not sure anyone can get financing to start up a new DQSB. That is scary in itself. But if someone comes along with the cash to bring the boats back on line, I'm all for revising the schedule as suggested here.

I think what you are saying is to do round trips. Back in the 70s, we did a 7 day rt Cincy/Pittsburgh, 7days Cincy/Ky Lake, 3 day weekend rts out of Cincy and St. Louis. We also had one rt St.Paul/Dubuque. In between were one ways of course. I think round trips would be very sensible, and that's been brought up on here before by several. However I disagree a bit with your idea of stationing a boat in one area for a period of time. Unless you can provide different routes out of that base - and Cincy and St. Louis certainly could - you will not fill the boat. This summer the AQ was on the UMR from mid July until the end of October. It was either a 7 day St. Louis to St. Paul or 7 day St. Paul to St. Louis. No kind of discount or deal could fill that boat that many times on the same stretch.

BB Riverboats IS planning a Fall trip to Pittsburgh in October. Also if there is enough interest expressed, a late summer trip to Paducah and Kentucky Lake. Contact BB Riverboats at their Newport, Ky Ldg. or check in at their web site.

Judy Patsch;14991 wrote: I think what you are saying is to do round trips. Back in the 70s, we did a 7 day rt Cincy/Pittsburgh, 7days Cincy/Ky Lake, 3 day weekend rts out of Cincy and St. Louis. We also had one rt St.Paul/Dubuque. In between were one ways of course. I think round trips would be very sensible, and that's been brought up on here before by several. However I disagree a bit with your idea of stationing a boat in one area for a period of time. Unless you can provide different routes out of that base - and Cincy and St. Louis certainly could - you will not fill the boat. This summer the AQ was on the UMR from mid July until the end of October. It was either a 7 day St. Louis to St. Paul or 7 day St. Paul to St. Louis. No kind of discount or deal could fill that boat that many times on the same stretch.

The last (maybe??) roundtrip the DQ ever did from St Paul was in 1999!!!

it was meant to be a St Croix River trip to include Stillwater, MN...however the Wisconsin DNR black-balled the idea due to zebra mussel infiltration concerns, as I heard???

Still , it was a memorable trip, 5 nights...south to PDC & back...sold out months before sailing, as we tried to get several relatives to join us...and they couldn't. I'm glad they didn't, as it then became a St Paul to Red Wing "one way" trip!!! But you all know those reasons! Despite that setback...it was a great trip...very memorable for my parents & myself, and as we remarked on Christmas evening chatting about our old DQ trips, and was sadly the beginning of the end, for my family at least...

Yeah Pete we used to do those round trips back and forth between ST. Louis and St. Paul for like 6 weeks at a time on both boats back in the late 70's and early 80's. We'd get so burned out on the Locks we called it "Lock Fever". I'd give just about anything now to have a case aof Lock Fever.

*UPDATED: RIVERBARGE ceases/Back in 2010?
Steamboating colleagues:
A business communication/financial report arrived today RE: RIVERBARGE ceasing operation that many in the 'loop' may already know. Possibility of a return in 2010 but at present laid up with "bookings for 2009 being closed." Rising costs and "soft bookings" were attributed. An escrow account is established with the Whitney National Bank for all payments for cruises overseen by the Federal Maritime Administration to be made available for processing. "No banktuptcy" of the company is indicated. The 196 RIVER EXPLORER had 48 cruises in 2009. The 730 ft. 3,000 hp vessel was built in 1998. The Galveston, TX stop was devastated by Hurricane IKE in September.

RIVERBARGE ceased running six weeks following MAJESTIC AMERIC LINE sailing it's last cruises with seven boats on American inland waterways. Two of the remaining boats running are CRUISE WEST's 96-passenger SPIRIT OF '98 and 84-passenger SPIRIT OF DISCOVERY on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. Cruise lines/vessels in general feeling the hit from the continuing financial crisis here and abroad with slumping revenue along with reduced financial projections. A number of 'blue water' ships altering marketing plans and schedules with redeployment to more lucrative markets. One cruise line reports difficulty with lagging bookings for an 'inaugural' cruise.

Good luck and best wishes to them all for future better times.

Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River.