Topic starter
13/12/2011 8:59 pm
Not much of a whistle blow in that they use air and only one little whistle, but John Beatty is involved and seen on the video. Mike Fletcher warned me that it was on Facebook and told me how to access it: Whistle Blow, Hamilton Landing. It took place at Mike's house on Fish Trap Road (now Ryle Road) in March of 1988. Cap'n Walnut
13/12/2011 10:19 pm
Hey Tom,
Wonder where to find this. I will check on You tube. For years I blew whistles on 80 pounds of air at my folks house, much to the dismay of their neighbors, including several larger whistles including the BELLE of CINCINNATI's 6" chime. True, whistles sound different on air then steam but still enjoyable to hear! Thought for a moment when I read your subject line that you all down at the shipyard where working on plans for a whistle blow in 2012, which I would happily attend.
Aaron
14/12/2011 12:36 am
Home movie
At the 4:10 mark, that is none other than Frank X. Prudent checking out the whistle. At 3:15, there was a quick pan of the crowd and I think Jack Custer was among them. The guy in the pink shirt who brought the other whistle looks familiar. Can someone identify him or anyone else? If nothing else, this video gives us a good look at John Beatty...
Topic starter
14/12/2011 1:48 am
Judy: The fellow with the straw hat is Mike Fletcher who hosted the blow at his place in Hamilton Landing (river mile 514.8 , descending). The fellow that John Beatty put his green hat on is Joe Munson, photographer for the Kentucky Post. Custer was there Mike sez but I don't know which. Mike is also known as Shantyboat Mike and often lurks on his shantyboat in Gunpowder creek. I think he is the one you said was in the pink shirt early on and brought the other whistle. Mike is or has been a MOR member. Cap'n Walnut
14/12/2011 3:50 pm
This isn't far from where we demonstrated my toroidal whistle prototype in 1985 to DES officials at Big Bone Lick State Park following two days of successful tests at the Cincinnati/Northern KY International Airport in July, 1982 shown on my video. We achieved SPLs up to 85 dB at 1 mile and the tests were heard over a large portion of Boone and Kenton counties as well as Delhi, OH.
Toroidal Whistle Prototype Test - YouTube
14/12/2011 4:02 pm
AJ Richardson;28427 wrote: Hey Tom,
Wonder where to find this. I will check on You tube. For years I blew whistles on 80 pounds of air at my folks house, much to the dismay of their neighbors, including several larger whistles including the BELLE of CINCINNATI's 6" chime. True, whistles sound different on air then steam but still enjoyable to hear! Thought for a moment when I read your subject line that you all down at the shipyard where working on plans for a whistle blow in 2012, which I would happily attend.Aaron
Aaron,
When did the BELLE OF CINCINNATI get a whistle? That (along with a rebuilt version of her calliope) would go a long way to making her sound like the part...cause she sure looks it! 6-Chime? Must be a former Railroad whistle!
Travis
14/12/2011 4:31 pm
Hey Travis,
She has never worn it. Issues with the CG I assume. They wanted technical data, a stability study done with the whistle on board and without, etc. So I think they killed the idea. The whistle I built for her was a 6" three chime patterned after a Lunk three chime I had at the time. I don't know what ever became of the whistle. For all I know it's under Alan's desk at BB. I agree 100% that something is needed in place of the air horns, or at the very least a larger line/higher pressure is run to the air horns. There is a long story about the trials of the whistle I built for her that I'll share with you someday.
Aaron
14/12/2011 6:05 pm
The main reason that whistles have been replaced by air horns is that many still regard whistles as inefficient sound signals, since they require high consumption rates approximating 100 CFM per inch in diameter. It is true that whistles do require relatively high consumption rates as compared to air horns for high acoustical output, but unlike many believe they do not require the high pressures normally associated with them. It is possible to design whistles for high acoustical output to operate at pressures as low as 15-35 PSI by simply using a slightly smaller languid plate to obtain a wider slit width.
The acoustical power of a whistle depends on its scale rather than any specific operating pressure, as many still believe. My toroidal whistle prototype, which became US Patent 4429656, used a mere 15 PSI directly furnished by a 150 HP Roots blower and produced 10-15 dB greater output than a 6" locomotive steam whistle requiring a boiler HP of around 250 HP. From my research I was able to improve on the efficiency and output of my original prototype, resulting in US Patent 4686928 on an inverted toroidal design using 25% less air consumption and horn loading for 10 dB greater output on axis. This whistle is as efficient as current warning sirens and offers a number of advantages over them in terms of long range propagation and penetration of structures. Google these patents for further details.
Toroidal whistles are primarily designed to be replacements for current warning sirens as a solution for them not being audible indoors from great distances and are overkill for most applications. My research still applies to whistles of more conventional design.
By doubling the width of the slit from .03" to .06" for an example, a whistle that originally required a pressure of 150 PSI to fully blow will be reduced to 37.5 PSI, a mere quarter of the original, without loss of output. The power required to continuously drive the whistle will also be significantly reduced.
The consumption rate of a whistle for a given output can also be significantly reduced by going from a typical 360 degree mouth design to one of only 90 degrees.
In addition to this, whistles using radiating mouths with areas greater than the cross sectional area of their bells simply require higher pressure and higher consumption rates than those with the radiating mouth area set to unity or of equal area to the cross section of their bell.
Using these techniques we can design whistles to be much more competitive with air horns in terms of continuous power input required vs acoustical output. Since whistles are the traditional voice of river steamboats it would nice to take advantage of these design techniques and return real whistles to their former applications.
14/12/2011 8:23 pm
Yeah, I could never figure out why the Coast Guard wouldn't be happy if:
a). The Belle of Cincinnati kept her regulation air horns, AND
b). Also added the steam whistles you made for them.
The air horns would be there for "official" use, covering the mandated portion of the CG regs (documented distance audible, etc), and yet the BOC would also have a fine steam whistle voice to lend to her steamboaty looks. Granted there is no steam for the whistles, but I've noted the GENERAL public doesn't notice the difference between the two different whistle sounds (compressed air vs. steam).
14/12/2011 9:51 pm
4501 scaled whistle on air - YouTube
cary4501scaledwhistle - YouTube
Here is a comparison of a 4501 scaled whistle on air and on steam.
14/12/2011 10:23 pm
Like I said, the general public doesn't hear or care about the difference. It would just be nice if the BOC also had whistles.........
15/12/2011 2:32 pm
Steve Huffman;28443 wrote: Like I said, the general public doesn't hear or care about the difference. It would just be nice if the BOC also had whistles.........
Me too! My lifetime goal is to see whistles return as mainstream sound signals, rather than everyone always resorting to air horns, sirens or electronic warning devices. I have been at it now for over 30 years. You can see the results in the videos I posted yesterday.
It isn't that difficult to build a whistle like the one in the videos if you have access to the correct information to design them correctly, along with a friend who has a machine shop and welding experience. This whistle was designed by a member of the Yahoo group Steam Whistles using whistle design spreadsheets based on formulas from my research in Flue Pipe Acoustics.
The member who wrote the programs for the spreadsheets is a former engineer for Pratt & Whitney so that members of this group don't need to know the math to design the exact type of whistle they want. All you need to know are the frequencies and the available operating pressure. The spreadsheets will then give you the correct design parameters. There is a link to this group on this site.
15/12/2011 4:16 pm
Richard Weisenberger;28446 wrote: Me too! My lifetime goal is to see whistles return as mainstream sound signals, rather than everyone always resorting to air horns, sirens or electronic warning devices. I have been at it now for over 30 years. You can see the results in the videos I posted yesterday.
It isn't that difficult to build a whistle like the one in the videos if you have access to the correct information to design them correctly, along with a friend who has a machine shop and welding experience. This whistle was designed by a member of the Yahoo group Steam Whistles using whistle design spreadsheets based on formulas from my research in Flue Pipe Acoustics.
The member who wrote the programs for the spreadsheets is a former engineer for Pratt & Whitney so that members of this group don't need to know the math to design the exact type of whistle they want. All you need to know are the frequencies and the available operating pressure. The spreadsheets will then give you the correct design parameters. There is a link to this group on this site.
Anyone considering using the spreadsheets, I beseech you to investigate their reliability thoroughly before putting your valuable time and money into ANY whistles using the spreadsheets. I know of examples where others (well known) have used the spreadsheets exactly as instructed, and their whistles did not perform as indicated. While an engineer might have written the programs for them, engineers aren't infallible. In fact, it appears there are certain whistle designs that the spreadsheets will not work for, and in all honesty it is a crap shoot that your design will work as indicated by the spreadsheets if you use them.
Best Regards to All,
Michael
16/12/2011 9:32 pm
Indeed, steam whistles built from spreadsheets have not always met expectations despite considerable investment of time and money, and I have posted a cautionary note here:
Steam Whistle Plans