Topic starter
03/03/2012 4:23 pm
A graduate student intern at the Howard Museum has been cataloguing the C.W. Stoll collection and in it the other day we discovered a booklet which was put out when the huge sidewheel CINCINNATI (later the PRESIDENT which is now in pieces scattered across a southern Illinois corn field) went into service in 1924. Interesting reading. In the booklet were the deck plans with the stateroom lay outs.
What I found most interesting was, here was boat that held about 200 overnight passengers, and it had no showers and only four bathtubs! My how times have changed, can you imagine taking a trip from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh and back in July on a non-air conditioned boat where 200 people had to share four bathtubs? That must have been a real "steamboat" experience.
03/03/2012 10:14 pm
*RE: Str. CINCINNATI booklet/Memories/History*
Hi, Jim & Steamboating colleagues:
If the 'booklet' RE: the then new Str. CINCINNATI [L&C LINE after sold to John W. Hubbard] is the 'one' I think your describe then I have one here. C.W. and I discussed these booklets comparing them as similar years ago. Fast dwindles the cadre of oldtimers here in Cincinnati with living memories of the CINCINNATI who were fortunate to have ridden her. Capt. Fred Way gave her a pretty good 'big blow' in WAY'S PACKET DIRECTORY, Pg. 82/83 Entry No. 1033. The CINCINNATI was huge alright but in spite of her glamour, appointments etc. was notorious for her leaking decks and roof with rain or snow from her first days. Her original building cost was $417,000 earning some $200,000 in her first eight years according to Fred Way. Do a monetary conversion to 2012 and you'll see that was no small chunk of change even then. Limited lavatory/bath facilities nothing unusual even on great boats/ships of the time. It would never fly today in the boat/ship cruise business and you pay for it. That's the way it was back then. The GORDON C. GREENE and even the DELTA QUEEN in her first years here had limitations to onboard comfort and convenience.
The L&C LINE began the new era following the disastrous ice of 1917/1918 after Commodore Fred Laidley sold out. There was great promise for better days operating with the CINCINNATI and her twin which ended up as the 2nd ISLAND QUEEN. I have additional booklets, folders, Mardi Gras promotions in my files here. In addition the QUEEN CITY operated for the L&C LINE in tandem with the CINCINNATI; then the dark days of the Great Depression hit linked to malignant union demands and strikes in the mid and latter 1930s that brought down more than a few venerable steamboat/steamship lines in the U.S. Some of the labor agitation was linked to Boshevik [Soviet] agitation here and abroad finding fertile ground in the financial, social, political events of the day.
The great CINCINNATI, and her never completed twin, would have placed river steamboating here on the same level as the huge, fine night boats of the Hudson River, 'Fall River Line' or other famed night boat operators. The late Charlie Dietz was engineer on the CINCINNNATI and in conversations and letters to me related the final days of the CINCINNATI and the L&C LINE as a near act of 'corporate treason and mismanagement.' Charlie pulled no punches in his opinions, facts and observations. Glad you have a young graduate student at hand to assist with this fine work at the Howard Museum. Keep us informed. Well, what do I know?
R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River
03/03/2012 10:58 pm
Is there a chance it will be scanned and available for e-perusal? Any idea of what a reprint would cost to have made?... a possible for sale item at the HSM gift shop. Sign me up to purchase a copy!
04/03/2012 4:01 am
*RE: 'Reprint' of Str. CINCINNATI book*
Hi, Jim & Steamboating colleagues:
I thought of your suggestion with the Str. CINCINNATI/L&C LINE book several years. I had clear, clean high definition scans of most of this fine art deco booklet made along with other brochures and folders from the company. It was sent to a previous editor of the S&D REFLECTOR but, alas, never appeared. A museum like the Howard 'could' do it but I understand financial resources are stretched. A professional reprint would be $$$ and what the profit would be a good question. IF I ever get off of it and tackle posting photos/graphics to this web site it may be of interest.
David Tschiggfrie, Editor supreme of the REFLECTOR, may be interested if I can resurrect those scans and send to him for a look see. The CINCINNATI's celebrated Mardi Gras cruise commencing in Pittsburgh was a grand affair lasting a good three weeks coming at no small price to well heeled passengers in those days. Monetary conversion to 2012 would equal a fine, long ocean cruise today. Service was formal with passengers 'dressing' for dinner, and that meant black or white tie for men, gowns with gloves, feathers and accoutrements for women in 1920s 'flapper era.' There are surviving B/W photos showing the revelry. What the booze angle was following Prohibition a good question with many ways for passengers to get around the law. Other than the above that's all I know.
R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati
04/03/2012 3:04 pm
1930 Mardi Gras brochure Str. CINCINNATI
I don't have that 1924 booklet, but here are a few pictures of pages from the
Mardi Gras Cruise of Steamer CINCINNATI, labeled in pencil 1930. Sorry I had to use my camera to get them resized to post - don't know how to do that on my scanner without Picasa...For those of you who can't read standing on your head, here's some of the trip info:
They left Cincinnati on Feb. 23 and returned on March 13, a total of 19 days. This included a 4 day stay in NOLA for the MG festivities. Prices ranged from $155 to $255 per person. In today's money that would be $2004 to $3232...
04/03/2012 3:20 pm
More from the booklet
"The staterooms are unusually bright, large and well ventilated. EVERY ROOM HS HOT AND COLD RUNNING WATER, regardless of rate, is electrically lighted and steam heated, should the weather demand it. The spotless linen and the comfortable mattresses and springs on the wide, roomy berths assure a good night's rest after the pleasures of the day. Some of the rooms have private toilet and some private bath and toilet." Shore stops included Louisville, Evansville, Paducah, Cairo, Memphis, Vicksburg and Baton Rouge downbound. Upbound stops were: Baton Rouge, Vicksburg, Memphis, Cairo, Paducah, Evansville, Louisville - in other words the same as the downbound.
04/03/2012 3:30 pm
A better shot of the deck plans
Here's a better shot of the deck plans after I enlarged them on my copier:
04/03/2012 6:54 pm
*RE: Str. CINCINNATI/Steamboat Business*
Steamboating colleagues:
Thanks to Judy for posting pronto the deck plans/information on the Str. CINCINNATI. Well done. Those who have possibly their March, 2011 copy of the S&D REFLECTOR may want to paw through to Pg. 53/54 for the article 'Steamboat Business' by later advertising man/PR practioner Lee Shepard presented to the Literary Club of Cincinnati. Shepard's piece gives us a 'whif' of what was already going on in the front office of the L&C LINE here as the CINCINNATI prepared for her grand Mardi Gras cruise from Pittsburgh to New Orleans "4,000 mile, 21 day tour." Ports of call from Pittsburgh down and back were: Wheeling, W.Va, Cincinnati, Louisville, Evansville, Paducah, Memphis, Helena, Greenville, Vicksburg, Natchez, New Orleans.
LOUISVILLE and CINCINNATI PACKET CO. now reorganized prided itself in ads as 'Successors to the U.S. MAIL LINE, Established in 1820. High honchos were:
John W. Hubbard, President [Known as the Pittsburgh 'Shovel King'].
Oscar F. Barrett, Vice-President
W.E. [Billy] Roe, General Manager
W.F. Noll [Martin] Secretary
E.H. Ojeman, G.F. & P.A. [An oldtimer in steamboat circles back to 1900].
C.C. Fuller, Superintendent, at Louisville, KY.
What the "L&C LINE 'slush fund' Lee Shepard was charged with fattening up from shippers on the river has never been fully explained. Fred Way may have written/mentioned it but I have my doubts. Could have been political and financial in nature. The dynamics of the above company officers are worthy of full articles in their own right and have been featured in the S&D REFLECTOR by Fred Way early on. Engineer Charlie Dietz minced no words to me regarding several of these gentlemen. They all circled the management of GREENE LINE STEAMERS and the Greene family as both competitors and friends over the years. By 1924 the writing was already on the wall that the 2nd twin steamer LOUISVILLE would probably not be completed for the L&C LINE for the two-boat night service.
The freight trade was beginning to die off due to expanding highway systems, increasing freight trucks accomplishing now 'door to door' delivery without double handling from wharfboats and landings to the receiving address. The L&C LINE sniffed the air seeing the potential for expanding more into the tourist/vacation market. These years were the final golden sunset of packet boating with the CINCINNATI being a contemporary of the DELTA KING, DELTA QUEEN out on the Sacramento, completion of the CAPE GIRARDEAU and entry of the CHRIS and TOM GREENE. Could the CINCINNATI have survived longer? A good question but highly doubtful for various business and operational needs--not to mention increasing Steamboat Inspection/Coast Guard regs. Possibly, with good promotion and business, through to near the opening of World War II but probably not beyond 1941. Who knows?
The Greene family, along with Capt. Jesse Hughes, looked over the big CINCINNATI following the demise of the L&C LINE but prudently put steamboat romance and sentiment aside keeping the company check book wisely in their pockets. It was the navigation rights and trade the GL purchased for both up and down river trade. Even until recent years the Cincinnati BELL TELEPHONE directory included in the maps of Cincinnati a hatch mark with arrows at the Public Landing with the words, 'Navigation lines, GREENE LINE STEAMERS.' Well, what do it know?
R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.
06/03/2012 7:29 pm
L & C Packet Company Booklet
The 24 page Souvenir and Historical booklet of the Steamer Cincinnati in the Howard Steamboat Museum collections, that Jimmy and Dale discuss, has suffered greatly from water damage and has considerable staining and some mold on its very fragile pages. It would not copy well. Since Dale has a better version, already scanned, perhaps he can, again, share it with the editor for an upcoming issue of the S&D REFLECTOR.