Identify The Boat II

More Pictures

1. The girls standing in front of the roof bell. Notice the flowers the girls have pinned to their dresses. It must have been a very special occasion. Also notice the button shoes on the girl on the left...kinda quaint.
2. My wife's grandparents siting on either the bar or the office skylight roof.
3. My wife's grandmother standing in front of skylight. Notice the locket she has dangling from her waist. We still have that locket.

A couple of More Pictures

1. Wife's grandmother standing on the roof in front of the paddle box.
2. Sitting on the "front porch"

My guess is that we're looking at a "Meet The Boat Trip" taken on the INDIANA. Clearly she's a sidewheeler, and from the photos she does not look quite as big as the two "City" boats would have been.

Franks probably right, he usually is. However I'm guessing the City of Louisville. My reason is the roof bell. The City of Louisville's bell was a special bell cast at Vanduzens for the Columbia Chicago expo and was acquired by L & C. It went over to the 1st. Island Queen. I have several photos of the bell, but who knows where in "Judds junk". Just a hunch.

Herewith are photos of the roof bell on the excursion Str. AMERICA, formerly the INDIANA, built at the Howard Shipyard in 1917. I think she became the AMERICA about 1922 and burned while laid up above Jeffersonville in 1930. As usual, when packets were altered to become excursion boats, there were structural changes made to the roof line, etc. I vote with Frank, that the photo was taken aboard the INDIANA.

Keith's photo locks it up. The Indiana. Once again a picture is worth a thousand words.

I'm not completely convinced

The bell is the same, but I'm not yet convinced 100%. Why? the railing around the front porch was different on the INDIANA, also the INDIANA had fancy work on the four corners of the pilothouse roof on the boat in the pictures that fancy work is missing. Here's a theory...the INIANA burned and as I recall the front of the boat was completely distroyed. Perhaps the original bell was lost. When the L&C Line rebuilt the INDIANA into the AMERICA, they used the bell from the recent vicitim of the 1918 ice, the CINCINNATI.
Just a theory, but I'll hold off awarding the Snickers bar until there is more proof.
Pictures:
1. INDIANA new at Howards
2. Hope this works..an enlargement of the texas porch area

second post, first picture, between the one girl's left elbow and the bell...a pilot house wheel to die for

first post, second picture, is that a very hot flue right infront of the obviously crem-de-le-crem stateroom. What would OSHA say today? nevermind, I know....

second post, first picture, between the one girl's left elbow and the bell...a pilot house wheel to die for. I'm thinking at least 10 feet....

first post, second picture, is that a very hot flue right infront of the porch stairs to the obviously crem-de-le-crem stateroom. What would OSHA say today? nevermind, I know....

Second post, second picture, what is that crazy as-ed flue/stack that takes a header off to the right?

And, I'm loving it...great pictures! Thanks...

OK, I got a question....The very top deck...hurricane deck?...I see the the skylights to the deck below, makes sense...But you look at Jim's last post, first picture and I'm seeing a little bump out, a little push out, of what appears to be two sets of skylight windows, pushing out beyond the sides of the main skylight/clerestory, pushed out to the sides, right above the stairs to the deck below. What is that? Why do they push out to the sides beyond the main skylight? Are these rather exclusive offices or work spaces below?

Well, gosh, I wish my boss thought that I am always right too!

If the picture is one of the "City" boats, my bet is with the CITY OF CINCINNATI. Seems to me as if the CITY OF LOUISVILLE had a fine rack of antlers mounted above her bell during most of her career.

Jim: I wasn't totally convinced either and did some more digging in photo files. This picture of the Strs. CITY OF LOUISVILLE (left) and CITY OF CINCINNATI alongside each other on one of their famous "Meet the Boat" trips now makes me think the boat in your photos is the CITY OF CINCINNATI. Note the gingerbread on the pilothouse, the railing and, again, the roof bell. Soooo, after more sleuthing, I'm changing my vote to the CITY OF CINCINNATI. Also, I think this better fits the time frame of circa 1914-15 that you gave for your family photographs. I noticed that in two of the images where the pilothouse is visible, the gingerbread is different, so my guess is that the photos were likely taken aboard BOTH the CITY OF CINCINNATI and the CITY OF LOUISVILLE, the passengers having transferred during one of the popular excursions.

What a shame that both of these grand sidewheelers were lost in the ice at Cincinnati in 1918. The late Paul W. Seabrook told me that he was on a train, bound for Army duty, when they crossed the bridge at Cincinnati and he looked down upon the wreckage of the steamboats, both crushed like eggshells.

PSSSSSSFT....Right Over My Head

Keith, of course you're right...they would go up on one boat and back on another; therefore there might be pictures taken on two boats. BUT FIRST...DRUM ROLL, PLEASE....YOU ARE THE WINNER OF THE BIG SNICKERS BAR AGAIN! It is the CINCINNATI.
I did some sluething around today in the Howard photos and I have photographic proof.
Pictures:
1. INDIANA
2. CINCINNATI
3. LOUISVILLE

Close us pictures

If we enlarge areas of the photo's it will become clear that they were on the CINCINNATI.
1. Enlargement of the pilothouse, texas proch of the CINCINNATI...that's the boat in the family pictures.
2. Enlargement of the pilothouse of the LOUISVILLE.
This has been fun, I have one more identify the boat photo from my grandmother/grandfather. Want to play some more or is this getting boring?

Keep going, I think its great! Plus often times it leads to other discussion and totally unrelated discoveries that may not have otherwise ever surfaced! Bring it on Jim!

Jim: In your picture of the COL, she appears to be backing. Donno why, but it begs the question in my mind as to how the bells worked on side-wheelers...did the pilot give differing instructions to each wheel or did all instructions go to the chief and he in turn instruct the striker on the other engine in what to do? I can see where she might want to come ahead on one wheel and mebbe even back on the other at the same time. I know that when MISSIE backs, it is anyone's bet where she might go! (Single screw; single rudder). Cap'n Walnut.

Tom, I'm going to have to defer that question to Alan Bates, he's the expert. I know that each wheel was independent of the other and they had a separate bell system for each side, but exactly how the bell pulls in the pilothouse operated, I'm not sure.

Cap'n Walnut,

Did the guys at Rabbit Hash shipyard go home early today? I bet they'd know!

I was priveleged to ride in the pilothouse of the PRESIDENT during a landing at Canal Street in the late 1970's. Of course, that boat had engine room telegraphs, but each side had its own handle, and one engine was handled by the engineer, the other the striker. Capt. Joseph "Tee-Joe" Decareaux was putting on quite a show between the two sides of the telegraph and the steering levers and talking to Capt. Curran on the bridge.

Wow, look at the carving on the nameboard of the CINCINNATI. It appears to be not flat carved letters but maybe with a slight slant to the larger part of the letter, then the thin part of some of the letters, then to top it all off Gold Leafed! This carving was all done with numerous chisels of various shapes and a wooden mallet.

Not an expert by any stretch of anybody's imagination, but I will say that the ADMIRAL'S telegraph was divided to each wheel. The Chief handled the Port Wheel, the Striker handled the Starboard Wheel.

To make that more fun, she was hand shipped.

Jim, Jim, Bob: I have been "on board" for years about the chief on the port engine; striker on the other wheel and no common shaft like the big Eastern River boats, but din't know about the split telegraph and, one might suppose, two complete sets of bells...more worser confusion than I thought. I always wondered what you did when you got behind on your bells! Did you work your way through them or skip to the current bell?? Was this clarified via the speaking tube? And, yeah, they all went home early from the Rabbit Hash Shipyard...my wife's birthday~! Cap'n Walnut

Cap'n Walnut,
My best bet is to refer you to Figure 101 in The Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopoedium. Yes, the paddlewheels were independent of each other. The engineer handled one and the striker handled the other. There were two full sets of three bells - stopping, backing bells and ship-up gong. Everything depended upon the previous signal and the code is as follows:
When stopped the stopping bell calls for AHEAD FULL. When running, either direction, the stopping bell means STOP.
When stopped the backing bell calls for BACK FULL. When running in either direction, the backing bell means SLOW.
The gong is more complicated. To call the engineer and striker to get ready ring three gongs. After working, three gongs means finished with engines. When stopped one gong means SHIFT TO THE OTHER DIRECTION, i.e. if engines have been running ahead, set to back and vice versa. When running in either direction one gong means HALF HEAD. When running two gongs means EMERGENCY FULL POWER.

All of the bells are self-negating, like a light switch turns on or off. Thus if running slow on a backing bell signal, ringing the backing bell again will return the engines to what they were doing previously. It was smarter and often quicker to ring the stopping bell and start over.

With the exception of emergencies all of this was done at a deliberate pace. After all, it takes time for the engineer and the boat to react, so why hurry? I got to watch a sidewheeler pilot do this one time on the transfer boat Ste. Genevieve. The boat had three railroad tracks but the incline had only one. When it came time to move the boat from one track to another, the pilot rang the appropriate bells and the boat would drop back a yard or two, move ten feet sidewise, and steam back to the incline. Bells were ringing like a campanile. The captain, meanwhile, was telling us about his tomato crop.

It was an efficient system and gave the pilot four speeds in each direction. The engineer did not have to answer them; all he had to do was operate the engines. The bells could be heard from afar so the mate and deckhands knew what the boat was doing at all times.

There is an old joke about engineroom bells. The pilot made a difficult landing and when the boat was safely moored he went downstairs for a cup of coffee. When he reached the engineroom the chief was frantically handling the engones, coming ahead, stopping, backing, slowing down and shipping up. The pilot asked, "What are you doing?"
The engineer replied, "You rang so many bells here, I am still catching up!"

Keith, Monday I went to the candy store and bought the big Snickers bar hoping that you would be at the Propeller Club and I could present it to you there in front of witnesses; but you weren't there. Yesterday I was working all day at the photo archives and skipped lunch. Well, I got in my truck to come home and there was that Snickers bar staring at me. Needless to say the Snickers bar is history....all I can say is them that's snooze loose.