Potable Water

Another question

Good question. But why did Greene Line carry sloshy, heavy water on the roof?

*RE: 'Potable' water on steamboats.*
Steamboating colleagues:
Jim and Lexie raise interesting questions RE: 'potable' water on steamboats in general, the DELTA QUEEN in particular--and I don't know all the answers. Those water tanks often seen on roofs of steamboats appear in old photos and the BETSY ANN also had such a tank. The tanks were mounted high up so as to take advantage of natural gravity to provide pressure in water lines below to the cook house, cabins etc. similar to round water tanks on roofs of buildings ashore. In time direct pressure provided by pumps aboard. The DK/DQ air-conditioning an ify proposition in California even down to early days operating out of Cincinnati. Bathing, showering on earlier steamboats was also 'ify' with passengers trudging to the central lavatory/baths or 'bird bathing' in cabin sinks or large crockery pitchers and bowls. The L&C LINE touted "fresh, safe filtered water" aboard their then new CINCINNATI of 1924.
John Burns related to me that the DQ's early air-conditioning system was based on a kind of spray filter system to cool air in ducts prior to the more modern heat extraction system similar to present conditioner units. I'm sure many here recall the fresh 'potable' water outlets on the DQ's decks where passengers carried those inevitable glass pitchers to use in cabins for brushing teeth. Remember those little signs on DQ cabin sinks warning the faucet water was not for drinking. Hostesses Peg Baker and Marty Stouder used to announce at the beginning of every trip where to get water for cabins calling it "Rebecca's well" similar to the Bible. Remember the fresh water line running from the Cincinnati Public Landing over to the GREENE LINE wharfboat for use in the offices and to fill tanks on the DQ?
Capt. Jesse Hughes also recalled his early years when water for consumption was taken directly from the river. On many old boats other potable water was stored in large wood barrels on decks and adjacent to the cook houses. Lavatories used water for flushing drawn from the river, filtered somewhat but not for drinking. Who remembers that water on the DQ being 'muddy, cloudy' at times? Typoid fever was a constant worry down to the time of the CHRIS and TOM GREENE running in the passenger trade. Water was valuable and conserved.
Remember the little desk, sample bottles, chemicals for water testing back in the DQ engine room with log book? I remember Cal Benefeld, Ralph Horton and others doing the periodic testing.
In Sacramento River days the DK/DQ had large steel tanks mounted near the boilers to pump in fresh water from the Sacramento River for boiler use as the boats ran then in two mediums--salt water in the bay, fresh on the upper river. John Burns recalled seeing some fish sucked into those tanks and swimming around. Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.

When BELLE first started running, the only potable water was stored in a large round tank located on the roof in front of the pilothouse and another tank located under the forward end of the skylight roof on the Texas. The next year Alan Bates had us deckhands down in the hull cleaning one of the smaller water tight compartments which was converted to the boats drinking water tank. We scraped the sides of the comparment with wire brushes and then painted the walls with a water/lime mixture.......It was the filling valve to that tank that someone turned on which resulted in the BELLE's famous sinking.

Very important water

I think the water testing in the engine room was for boiler water. This would have been done on a regular basis and appropriate chemicals added to keep boiler water inert.

Lexie is right. By the time we were on the DQ, the engineers were very fastidious about boiler water and used fresh water from the peak tank for the boilers. This was city water, but was stored in a tank not approved for potable water. Engineers did a water test every watch.

The water situation on the DQ was not completely resolved until after the new hull was put on well into the 80's. Prior to that, in sinks, the water was fresh city water but like the boiler water, was kept in non-potable water tanks. Even though there was the warning not to drink it, I always used it to brush teeth, etc. Commodes were filtered river water up to the time when the new big tanks were installed with the new hull.

Ann Zeiger always said she did not like the new system, since she could not tell from the toilet water where they were. She was one-of-a-kind.

*RE: Potable water/testing/chlorine*
Steamboating colleagues:
Thanks to Jim for memories of the roof water tank for natural high pressure and the fresh water tank in the hull on the BELLE. A solution of water/lime would have been right. Lexie makes good point about the water testing station on the DQ for boilers. I remember seeing the samples in flasks with chemicals added followed by dipping in litmus paper to detect color change for acid and alkaline. Steamboats and other vessels on the upper Ohio faced constant problems with chemical outfalls from steel mills, factories to boat piping and boilers. Water then in some places so acidic you could feel it on your skin.

Domestic and vessel chorination of potable water came in/around early 1900s following massive outbreaks of illness in Great Britain and here in the U.S. First municipal purification, chlorination of water was in Jersey City, NJ in 1908; Philadelphia in 1913. By 1941 cholorination in the U.S. abandoned particle chloride of lime with chlorine gas. Navy ships, commercial steamboats, vessels required to guarantee the highest possible level of potable water. Our office in the navy checked on this several times a day.

I'm sure many here still recall the steamboat 'mud drum' allowing water to settle out first. No doubt this no longer case on the BELLE OF LOUISVILLE. Other steamboats of the time also installed a kind of sand filter with cotton or linen fibers--possibly charcoal in some units. Even earlier they had no concept of water conveyed bacteria, parasites, amoebic dysentary. Thinking was that 'if it looked clean, smelled clean' then it was drinkable.

Hot, humid days of summer were the worst. Log books, records, letters from boats mention the dreaded 'summer complaint' from water, poorly refrigerated foods. I was on the DQ ages ago when a large number of us came down with the 'summer complaint.' Final verdict upon investigation found it came from the central dish washing machine aboard failing to rinse soap residue from dishes, cutlery, glasses with lower than required temperatures for killing bacteria.

Dr. Lyster in time also invented the famed 'Lyster bag' for the military and civilian use with a heavy water tight bag for water on a tripod with cholrine tablets dropped in. I'm sure Jim, Kenny and others of us here remember that.

In the 1920s the CHRIS GREENE tied up in hot summer months for repairs. Passengers and some crew killed the time swimming in the Ohio River here near New Richmond, OH. A number fell very ill with typhoid fever from the river. Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.

Toilet water GPS

Yes, the DQ's toilet water was a predecessor to the GPS - you could look at the color/shade and know where you were. I always laughed to hear the toilets being flushed over and over again by the new passengers when we were in St. Louis or anywhere below the Missouri River - that light brown shade sure looked like it needed flushing! As soon as we got above the Missouri confluence, it lightened and continued to lighten as we got closer to St. Paul. One of the fascinating places was Greenville Mississippi. Regardless if you had come up from New Orleans or down from St. Louis, you had the light brown water in the toilet. But when you awakened in Greenville, it was nice and clear. That was because we were on Lake Ferguson. As soon as we got back into the main channel, brown again!
I too remember the warnings by the sink to not drink the water, and the drinking water stations midship on each deck where you could fill your water pitcher.
When I went over to work on the MQ for a week in the summer of 1983, I asked my neighboring crew member if we could drink the water out of the sink faucet. He obviously had never been on the DQ because he gave me the weirdest look and said Why not????
Bob, weren't the various hookups color-coded just in case the deckhand didn't read very well?

Yes, blue for potable and red for wash water.

Having enough water was always a concern on the DQ. Capt. Wagner believed you should take water at EVERY opportunity -- it did not matter if we had topped off 24 hours previously, we'd do it again. After the new hull, Dave Williamson told me that I simply would not believe the water capacity...sometimes they would go a week or 10 days without getting water and be just fine, and by that time, it served stateroom sinks, commodes, everything.

Bob Reynolds;30917 wrote: After the new hull, Dave Williamson told me that I simply would not believe the water capacity...sometimes they would go a week or 10 days without getting water and be just fine, and by that time, it served stateroom sinks, commodes, everything.

Bob, if memory serves me correctly her PW capacity is now somewhere around 65,000 gallons....at 8 lbs per gallon, they almost act as ballast tanks!

Doc Hawley tells the story of one time in the mid-1960's when in the middle of the night a pipe broke which ran between the two fresh water tanks on the DQ. Of course ALL the potable water ran into the hull. There wasn't even enough water to make the morning coffee much less make breakfast! If you think loosing electricity is a pain, just try living without water.

Po-tuh-bul / Pot-uh-bul / Po-ta-toe / Po-tah-to

I remember, eons ago, when there was "controversy" aboard the BELLE when the words PORTABLE WATER were stencilled on the stern bulkhead of the wharfboat (former steam towboat RENOWN) above a water hose. The poor deckhand who had done the stencilling had never even heard the word POTABLE and wondered what the fuss was all about! Then, there was much discussion about the correct pronunciation of the word. According to my dictionary it is PO-TUH-BUL, but many folks say POT-UH-BUL. Whatever floats your boat!

ater, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink

I got in trouble when running mate because I had not topped off the potable water at Baton Rouge. (Wagner was not captain.) I reminded said captain that I was not on watch at Baton Rouge. Never-the-less, I was told I could get fired for not topping off the water. Post Wagner captains were pretty paranoid about it. I do not ever remember running out of water. Close, but no cigar. The hose usually followed the head line if there was a spigot up there somewhere. I was fussy about leaky hose connections. Frequently tightened them so there was not a drop leaking.

My first trip on the DQ was in the pre-commode chamber pot days, which were rapidly disappearing over the side, by the way. A whole other story.

WWWWater

That post posted before I was ready and in the wrong place.
All I wanted to do is type in a W in front of ater.

*RE: 'Potable water/MQ experience*
Keith's anecdote RE: PORTABLE WATER

*'Potable H20/MQ memories*
Steamboating colleagues:
Keith's recollections of PORTABLE WATER a real classic. Variations on the word can differ. My Webster's Dictionary Unabridged edition enters it as 'po ta ble' from Latin 'potabilis' and French potare to 'drink.' It can vary and I've heard people from Great Britain even say 'po table.' Capt. C.W. Stoll recalled his memories of the steamboat SOUTHLAND pronouncing it, as others did, 'SOUTH LUN.'

In the birthing days of the then new MISSISSIPPI QUEEN the fresh water supply caused a number of headaches. On the 1st shake down cruise of the boat, somebody accidently turned the wrong valve dumping all of the vital potable water in the river. No water for drinking, cooking for a time. Betty Blake rose to the event in pure PR style opening the boat's bars aboard "on the house" for all of us. Fine to a point, but how long can you go without a cup of hot coffee? And then other things developed with potable water streaming down from overheads and bulkheads from leaking water fixtures. The then new pneumatic toilets didn't flush nor could we shower in cabins. A number of us slipped up to the boat's swimming pool with soap before dinner to take a quick bath wearing swimming suits.

Mrs. Letha Greene was aboard and on the delivery trip here to Cincinnati. We talked comparing notes. "What do you think?" she asked furtively. I replied how I liked the boat etc. and then, "Water will be a big issue on this boat." Mrs. Greene lowered her voice, "This boat is like a huge thirsty whale existing from one shore stop to the next. They'll learn their lesson." One droll passenger took magic marker and penned on a piece of paper at the Purser's Desk, "Drink like a fish water only."

One of the least of the MQ shakedown issues was that the plastic plates on the cabin keys in black and gold weren't permanent with the color rubbing off on our hands. "That's what this trip is for," Betty intoned later mumbling, "All of you guests are really guinepigs." The real kicker came in the MQ pilothouse when Capt. Harry Louden looked all around, with invited Coast Guard officers behind him, and said, "Hey, anybody know what all of these switches and buttons are for?" Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.