Random questions

I'm no historian but I read somewhere that they would dock and go into the woods and cut down trees for firewood, then continue on.

Pretty hard core considering our regulated and cushy lifestyles we enjoy today.

St. Louis to Hannibal

No need to refuel, but it is 129 river miles between the two. I don't know the average speed back in 1867, but today's steamboats make 8 or 9 mph going upriver. They are for pleasure rather than delivery business and so don't need a faster pace. However unless you've got a supercharged boat, it would definitely need more than 7 hours for that trip. I'd say 12 for a minimum, Bob or other pilots????

*River miles/Way stops/'Wooding'*
Steamboating colleagues,
Interesting post indeed and I think Judy the closest on the money in her mileage and hours steaming from St. Louis to Hannibal. Then again there are other considerations in that trip. One would be the number of way stops for passengers, cargo etc. on a usual run. Not all runs were 'express' with freight/cargo being what really paid the bills, made a profit. Another factor would be fuel or 'wooding' at way places. The boat 'could' have carried enough wood but there also could have been a stop at a 'wood yard' along the way. As Judy writes they may not have stopped to refuel. It depended. In the early days steamboats burned wood to raise steam. Forests were plenty then with 'wood yards' along the way the pilots, officers knew. Some had a prominent sign posted listing the current price of a cord of wood each. The crews, pilots, officers on the boats would steam close enough to get the current price or look through a telescope from out in the river. And there was 'good' and 'bad' wood from the yards with good, honest wood sellers along with slickers who tried to cheat the boats. Old letters, diaries, log books mention these wood yards as "mean, foul places...dregs of humanity" etc. The 'milk of human kindness' interpreted differently then to now.

In time coal was readily available to be mixed with the wood for hotter fires, more steam. In time coal pretty much the main stay for years. Boats converting from all wood to coal had to alter their boilers and fire grates with coal being hotter on metals. Some boat burned at times the cheaper coal reserving the more expensive anthracite coal for the laborious up river trip against the current demanding more steam. Another factor was what the often-changing river and channel then meant in navigating up or down. Rivers change and changed even more dramatically then with channels, sand bars, banks on either side etc.

The boat on that trip could have had a series of scheduled stops along the way or just pulled in when hailed or had freight, mail to drop off, pick up. Boats for years did make unscheduled 'milk, cow, chicken, pig and egg stops' with that often becoming the legend of packet boating. In later years that practice played out as stops for just small items wasn't worth the trouble for the small revenue. Any boat with a U.S. Mail contract was another matter making strict mail stops on a tight schedule with penalties when there were delays or slow delivery. The U.S. Mail contract came with a double edged sword. There was no sliding allowance for the fuel bill subsidy to run the boats on a fast schedule. Packet lines, individual boat owners had to run a tight ship to keep a schedule, make money according to the contract. In time the emerging, faster railroads along navigable streams nixed the mail contract somewhat. Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati.

128 miles divided by 7 (hours) would mean they'd have to make an average of over 18 MPH. That just wouldn't happen. They'd need at least 16 hours (at 8 MPH, pretty fast) to make that trip, and that's with no stops for wood, hails for freight or passengers. I'd say more like 18-20 hours to make the trip.

I would go out of my ever livin mind citing "Are we there yet?" repeatedly!

The season of the year makes a difference too. I'm assuming that there's good water all the way up. There was no guaranteed channel in 1867. If the water was low, well, the bottom of the boat just might get intimate with the bottom of the river!

*The season/low water/winter ice*
Steamboating colleagues,
Indeed Frank is correct with his statement "The season of the year makes a difference too." Lots of variables then in steamboating even down to relatively recent years. I'm not as familiar with the Mississippi River in general or the river above in particular as many here are. The river could vary from floods to very low water. Winter ice also a factor then and even now today. I was looking for somebody like Capt. Bob Reynolds, or another in the know, to come on with an expert opinion on the steaming hours from St. Louis up to Hannibal.

Several years ago I was asked to "examine" an old personal diary dating to the 1860s up to around 1869 penned by a young lady in her teens on for those years. The request to me not to do any appraisal [$$] but to give an opinion on its worth historically. That a hard call for sure. Most of the long diary of usual and customary daily activities the young lady experienced. Then some tantalizing entries of her describing a winter trip up river from St. Louis to a port not mentioned. Several steamboats mentioned clearly by name. Her steamboat [Can't recall the name now] indeed got stuck, grounded in winter ice not being able to budge even with the crew and people ashore attempting to cut a channel, use the wheels to drive ahead--pretty risky with wood sidewheels. Where there was no ice there was the shallow bottom with them using the spars and spuds to 'walk' the boat some feet at a time--a long, slow process often hard on a wood-hulled steamboat. It was hopeless with the boat stuck. Ladders were put down from the deck so passengers with luggage could crawl down, hike, crawl carefully over the ice to shore. It mentioned a few days in a kind of hotel or boarding house until the ice broke somewhat opening a channel. No mention in the entries if there was a railroad on either shore.

The young lady also penned in long entries more focused on her railroad trip from near Columbus Ohio west to the Mississippi and beyond to western Missouri. The log was long, somehat interesting with fascinating entries but not of archival quality. Many entries about foods eaten, clothes, hats etc. which can be intersting and gold to those resarching general life of the time. I'll dig in my dusty boxes here seeing if I can recover the notes I made direct from the text. Again, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Hey Bob, these new Viking boats, you know the ones who proclaim: "Spend less time getting there and more time being there" might make 18 mph!!! Won't that be fun. Geez.
Years ago N.O.Steamboat had a fast catamaran from the Aquarium up to the Zoo. Practically got whiplash when it started up. I think it lasted 6 months or so and ended up around Seattle. the AUDUBON EXPRESS..they went back to the JJA, which could move, but which made no more than 10 mph on her trips.

Hello everyone! Thanks so much for all the information!
Well, on the script, they're actually racing. There are two steamboats trying to get to Hannibal as fast as they can.

So there would be no stops at all for anything. They need to get there right away.

So... how about a 17 hour trip? Would that make sense in terms of distance, given the situation?

Thanks so much again! This really helps!!!

*Research suggestions/Questions/Script*
Steamboating colleagues,
Giorgio, I read again your initial question on this web followed by postings with information. From time to time authors/researchers come on Steamboats.org seeking information, sources for scripts, novels. Other times some on this web as posters receive private E=Mails, calls or letters for further assistance. With all due respect, I certainly hope you are NOT pursuing again the well-worn, dog-earred theme or story line of 'A Mississippi riverboat gambler aboard a steamboat during a great race.' In the past Steamboats.org has given information, data, time to researchers/writers on several nebulous themes only to never hear another word or update. As the late Capt. C.W. Stoll said years ago, "You either 'get it' about steamboats or you don't." I have some beginner/tutorial references and suggestions to get you started in this quest. Even with a fictional novel or a historical novel you are free in your imagination--but you better have your basic history correct as any editor can see through it in an instant. Readers or viewers of such in the media with an understanding of the topic, history can be brutal critics. The steamboat era so rich in history why would somebody want to write fiction? Truth is greater than fiction with more real history, color.

1. "She Takes The Horns: Steamboat Racing On The Western Waters." Capt. Frederick Way, Jr. Copyright 1953 by Young & Klein, Cincinnati, Ohio. This a detailed book on steamboat racing, facts, time charts, history etc. Young & Klein no longer in business.

2. "Fastest On The River: The Great Race Between the NATCHEZ and the ROBERT E. LEE." By Manly Wade Wellman, Henry Holt & Company, New York. 1957. This also, like Way's books, a 'must read.'

3. "The Western Rivers STEAMBOAT CYCLOPOEDIUM." Bu Capt. Alan Bates. Hustle Press, Leona, New Jersey. 1968. Design, construction, operation of steamboats in detail with explanations.

4. "The Western Rivers ENGINEROOM CYCLOPOEDIUM." By Capt. alan Bates. 1996. Detailed study/explanation of steamboat engines, boilers, pumps etc. If you're not familiar with steamboat engines, boilers then you're missing the nuts and bolts [*No pun intended] of steamboats.
*Both of the Bates books vital to the understanding of steamboats as a working piece of floating equipment. Capt. Fred Way, dean of American steamboat men, the direct source for the history of Western Rivers steamboats not only in his time but back to the earliest years of steam navigation on the rivers. I am certain, with your own research skills, you know how to access library or Internet web sources to flesh out your understanding, knowledge in your project. You have a lot of detailed reading, research to get it down right. Good luck and keep us posted! Again, what do I know?

NOTE: Capt. Frederick Way also produced a big tome on steamboats with numbered listings, detailed history of steamboats, officers, crews Etc. "Way's Packet Directory, 1848-1983." Ohio University Press, Athens, Ohio. London. Also his classic "Steam Towboat Directory." *Another absolute must in reading is "Steamboat Gothic." Frances Parkinson Keyes.

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Thanks for all the info, but no, the story line is quite different from the one you mention. The race is not even five percent of the script.