Sheer in a modern boat

*Steamboats on the Murray/Nile/Amazon Rivers*
Morning, Steamboating colleagues:
Jim, many thanks for your link above on the MURRAY PRINCESS linked to "Sheer in a modern boat." And so I clicked above to read the link. On another detailed marine web site the MURRAY PRINCESS is listed as having "two cylinders with hydraulic pumps" thus nixing any current use of steam. I note her cabins well appointed but rather spartan. A few older steamers operated there until not too many years ago. *There are other Internet links to steamboats titled 'Murray-Darling steamboats on Wikipedia.' This very similar to our own Capt. Fred Way's classic PACKET DIRECTORY & STEAM TOWBOAT DIRECTORY featuring boats by name, date, service and final disposition. Text is limited without the rich history Fred Way wrote in his two books or in his S&D REFLECTOR. Capt. Fred's writing gave boats a living personality of their own.

There's also another fascinating link on the Internet web sites: 'Nile steamship [i.e. steamboat] SUDAN.' Photos of interior cabins are incredible with it obviously being very $$$. No mention made if the SUDAN still operting under authentic steam or modernized. In 1933 the SUDAN hosted writer Agtha Christie who later wrote 'Death on the Nile' even later coming out in a movie I think we all have seen. The SUDAN called "...most beautiful on the Nile."

Next I tooled finding a [PDF] link on Internet web sites to 'Historic Boats Amazon.' Features history of older steamboats along with history of one still surviving. Issue today in cruising on the Murray-Darling Rivers, Amazon and Nile are the modern creature comforts requiring cabin baths with toilets, running water. Air-conditioning also vital as they run in very hot parts of the world. This but the tip RE: other major and minor rivers of the world operating cruise vessels. Well, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

*SS SUDAN on the Nile/Other world river vessels*
Steamboating colleagues:
Okay, another 'shy lurker' on Steamboats.org communicated with me asking for "More information, links to the Nile River boat SS SUDAN." This mentioned in the above as the surviving period Nile boat made famous by Agatha Christie in 'Death on the Nile' mystery book and movie.

Without going through all the http// stuff, you can simply type in on your search engine window: SS SUDAN, Nile River boat Up comes a number of web sites with the SUDAN appearing in French and English. The SUDAN home page comes up to click and view.
Another site near or below is all photo featuring not only the SUDAN but many other NIle River cruise vessels of surprising number, design. Also are links to other world rivers including the U.S. and the AMERICAN QUEEN. The vintage but beautifully appointed SUDAN is very pricey with cruise rates quoted in Euros. My understanding that political unrest, acts of terrorism did/have impacted not only Egyptian tourism but the Nile boats with some of late totally laid up and idle. Well, what do I know?

PS> Have a safe, pleasant Labor Day weekend. I remember back years now those very popular Labor Day cruises on the DELTA QUEEN from Cincinnati down to Louisville or below returning to Cincinnati. They were always booked full far in advance. One such cruise on the DQ we steamed out on Friday early evening, returned PM on Monday if Labor Day fell that way.

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

In some dusty box I might still have a post card of the PS Murray River Queen. As I recall the owner/builder was on the Str Delta Queen either as a passenger or a visitor at one town or another. My memory gives the date as somewhere between 1973 and 1979. The great authority on all questions--the computer--lists her as being built by the Veestra Famly. 156.36, by 26 and drawing 7.7 ft. side wheeler, 205ph diesel engine.originally operating overnight trips from Goolwa on the Murray River. Apparently the family built other large passenger vessels.

My suspicion is that she no longer operates as a passenger carrying vessel.

The listing as a Paddle Steamer brings up the question that I cannot answer as to whether she was built as a steam vessel or was diesel powered from the start. Should I ever be so lucky to find the post card maybe the answer will be found there.

Hopefully someone knowledgeable on Down Under River Vessels can bring us up to date.

Murray River Queen Update

Paddle Steamer Built 1974 at Hindmarsh Island current home port Waikerie in South Australia. 156.36 by 26 by 7.7. 205 HP Diesel 878.97 tonnage steel construction. Runs 2 an 4 night cruises and photos on internet. Nice looking boat.Carole Matthews Pompano Beach Fl 33064

Labor Day Cruise

Dale said above: PS> Have a safe, pleasant Labor Day weekend. I remember back years now those very popular Labor Day cruises on the DELTA QUEEN from Cincinnati down to Louisville or below returning to Cincinnati. They were always booked full far in advance. One such cruise on the DQ we steamed out on Friday early evening, returned PM on Monday if Labor Day fell that way.

Dale, I must have been on one of those Labor Day cruises with you! My first one was in 1970, at age 19. The cruise was marketed, "Cincinnati to Oxbow Bends". On the return trip back to Cincy, we were running ahead of schedule, and Captain Wagner got on the PA system and asked if the passengers would yell a response for him. He wanted to know if we would like to cruise to New Richmond, OR visit Coney Island on it's last day of operation. Of course the biggest noise was for Coney Island, and I'm sure that Cap didn't mind having one last stop at Coney for old times' sake. It was the only time that the DQ ever landed there. Here's a picture of Captain Wagner on that special day at Coney exactly 45 years ago.

What a great story, Denny! The way things used to be...how can you not love it?

*DQ at old CONEY ISLAND/You bet!*
Morning, Steamboating collelagues:
Denny, your above is too spooky for words and really rocked me good when I clicked/read. That late summer and Labor Day 1970 was indeed a long time ago and even then I was a lot older than you. Those Labor Day cruises with the DQ then were one of the most popular of all rapidly booking up solid--as did the Kentucky Derby trip in the spring. Those trips again brought to my mind what Betty Blake so often said, "The DQ could make big money booked running three and four day trips a week."

And so it was, with time to kill, Capt. Wagner treated all of us to that stop down at CONEY ISLAND. It was the last day with a big sign in the middle of Lake Como at CONEY clicking off the days. You know, 5,4,3,2,1 and then '0.' CONEY was scaling back with then new KING'S ISLAND opened and in operation. The popularity CONEY had really never wavered with the park today back in nearly full operation drawing crowds as does huge revamped 'SunLite Pool.' That cold, clear pool water at CONEY is natural coming from deep springs underground pumped up and in with huge filters. I think many remember the logo painted on the side of the big CONEY pool building, "You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing." The old CONEY landing had the stone gate with the little lighthouse on top, sloped landing. That DQ stop reminded a number of us old enough to recall the last ISLAND QUEEN to and from the park until September, 1947--and that has been written, discussed here in great depth a number of times. When the DQ blew that great whistle people in the park came running from all directions. Others in CONEY later mentioned to me, "We couldn't believe it! We heard the boat's whistle and calliope; then we looked seeing her pilothouse and upper deck slowly moving in." Honestly, I can't remember how long the boat was there that day, can you? There were other Labor Day trips after that but I'll always remember it same as you. That photo you posted of Capt. Wagner is how I remembered him best. Wagner's house was up river in New Richmond, Ohio and still stands today. Thanks for the memories. Cheers! Well, again, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Just checked the "dusty box" with a few slides of 'Delta Queen Coney Island Last Day'. Slides marked Labor Day 1971. As I recall Big Cap was in a rather pensive mood that day as it would close out memories, some good some painful, of his association with the Island Queen--the beginning of his River Career.

Don't remember how long we landed at Coney that day. One of the Park Officials came down to the landing in a golf cart of the day and I do believe took Capt Wagner for a ride in the park. I remember that Gabe wrangled a ride up to the Shooting Star (rollercoaster) to ride "one last time".

Cap let me get off to get a few photos of the boat at the landing. Unfortunately no photo of Capt Wagner that day.

The Shooting Star was a wooden coaster of great renown at the time. The lift to the top was perpendicular to the River, a short 90 degree turn to the left (upriver) for maybe a second or two then this great plung down.................what a thrill it was!

Never have ridden the Island Queen to Coney it was my one and only boat landing at Coney Island.

Bob Reynolds;34957 wrote: What a great story, Denny! The way things used to be...how can you not love it?

I wish that there was a "like" button for me to push here.

The PRESIDENT made a couple of dinner dance trips up to Coney during the 1988 Tall Stacks. It seems to me as if the tickets were $90.00 apiece plus service charge. The boat left the Public Landing with Capt. Clarke C. Hawley at the calliope's keyboard, and headed up to Coney. A delicious prime rib buffet was served on the boiler deck on the way there. After she landed at the old steamboat landing passengers walked up the hill for desserts and dancing to a big band at Moonlight Gardens. Well after dark the sister to the ISLAND QUEEN high footed it back to the Landing with her charges.

I well remember sitting on a bench at the top of the Coney landing, squinting my eyes, and thinking this was what it was like before September, 1947. In the words of Capt' Fred Way, "And now the spell is broken; the boat is gone."

Dale, you're right. The "landing whistle" of the Delta Queen at Coney rousted hundreds of people to witness the arrival. It took a while to get moored that day because the deckhands couldn't find a good tree or mooring ring at the old landing. Two young "Guest Relations" girls came down on a golf cart and said that the boat's whistle sounded like it was crying, so they had to check it out. The boat was there for about 2 hours. A brief shower occurred right after we arrived, and I have a picture of many DQ passengers seeking refuge under the old Coney Lighthouse entrance. After the storm, I got a shot of the boat framed in the stone arch of the entrance. It remains one of my favorite pictures of the boat.

I regret not going into the park that day, but I decided to stay near the boat getting slides of it because the DQ itself was in a very nasty exemption fight with Congressman Ed Garmatz. No one knew if this was going to be the last summer for the boat.

*DQ at CONEY/Landing whistle/Rain*Steamboating colleagues:
Denny, Bob, Frank, Jim. WOW! Talk about more memories of old CONEY ISLAND and the DELTA QUEEN landing there the last day the park was open! In my earlier posting above I came within an ace of asking if it "rained" that day later as I remembered and above was the answer from Denny. In retrospect now "two hours" at CONEY sounds about right. The old CONEY lighthouse entrance up from the river was and still is picturesque making a great 'frame' for old photos not only of the DELTA QUEEN but the last ISLAND QUEEN before her--until September, 1947. And how the gang up in the DQ pilothouse did make the "boat's whistle sound like it was crying."

Another 'spooky' concidence with the above was one dating way, way back to the late summer of 1947. Mother hauled me up to CONEY as a little kid with neighbors for the day on the ISLAND QUEEN from the foot of Broadway in town [You road the old street cars on rails back then]. And up the river we went for the day with food in hampers. Part of the park visit [One of several I remember on the IQ] was to swim at old 'SunLite Pool' for a while; then tour the park.

My dad was off work that day and rode the Cincinnati Transit bus up to CONEY to meet us. Late in the afternoon time to return on the boat down to town. I vividly recall standing inside on the upper deck at the bow with my family. Dad 'boosted' me up so I could look out and down watching the landing stage being swug around, secured. Then a really big thundersorm broke with lightening, thunder, heavy rain. The IQ killed out, turned heading down in the rain. There was a distinct sensation of the boat lightly shimmying, vibrating with the sensation of her big wheels on each side rolling over. Don't let people tell you that boat didn't have a sense of movement with her wheels in action. That big steel stage also had a little 'jumping' and shimmy underway too. I can only assume when we reached the foot of Broadway in town we again took the street car back out to home. No doubt I was ragged out, sleepy. Homer Denny played the calliope on the IQ and I remember him well. His nephews, nieces lived next door to us with his grandnephew being a chum of mine. All were musically inclined with exceptional talents.

And I also vividly recall the September afternoon with a clear, sunny sky when our neighbor came running over baning on the door with the news, "It's just on the radio that the ISLAND QUEEN exploded and is burning up in Pittsburgh!" Later the paper boy came down the street with the hew and cry, "EXTRA! EXTRA! ISLAND QUEEN explodes at Pittsburgh and possibly a total loss!" These are things you never forget. That was a L-O-N-G time ago. Again, what do I know?

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

One of my pet peeves is rewriting history for ones own purposes, which seems to be what is being done when I read in certain press releases that congress did not mean to include the DQ in the SOLAS Act of 1965 and when congress realized their mistake, the boat was quickly granted an exemption. As Danny pointed out in this thread in 1970 the boat was in a fight for her life to get her first exemption. Congress sure didn't relent easily and, as I remember, only granted the first exemption to give the Greene Line time to build a replacement.
Another rewrite was the DQ didn't have a bar until after "Ma" Greene died. The boat had a bar since day one. And Mary B. Greene was not the first licensed lady pilot...I think Blanche Leathers and Sandy Custer's great grandmother would take exception to that.
As Dale says "what do I know".

R. Dale Flick;34962 wrote: The IQ killed out, turned heading down in the rain. There was a distinct sensation of the boat lightly shimmying, vibrating with the sensation of her big wheels on each side rolling over. Don't let people tell you that boat didn't have a sense of movement with her wheels in action. That big steel stage also had a little 'jumping' and shimmy underway too.

When the IQ was worked hard, Dad said that you could watch the main deck flex up and down as she made her way along. I believe that those familiar with the PRESIDENT report she behaved the same way.

Jim Reising;34963 wrote: One of my pet peeves is rewriting history for ones own purposes, which seems to be what is being done when I read in certain press releases that congress did not mean to include the DQ in the SOLAS Act of 1965 and when congress realized their mistake, the boat was quickly granted an exemption. As Danny pointed out in this thread in 1970 the boat was in a fight for her life to get her first exemption. Congress sure didn't relent easily and, as I remember, only granted the first exemption to give the Greene Line time to build a replacement.
Another rewrite was the DQ didn't have a bar until after "Ma" Greene died. The boat had a bar since day one. And Mary B. Greene was not the first licensed lady pilot...I think Blanche Leathers and Sandy Custer's great grandmother would take exception to that.
As Dale says "what do I know".

You got that right, Jim! Bob McCann told me that when the bar was put on the GORDON C. GREENE Mary Greene told her son Tom, "Now you know that your father would not approve of liquor being served on the boat." And Tom's reply was, "Yes, I know, Mom, but the times have changed. We need to do it for the revenue." Bob further stated that Captain Mary's response was a quick one, "Well, if it's for the revenue then that's alright!"

*Legends/CONEY's last day/IQ 'working hard*
Steamboating colleagues:
Okay, I know that every year about this time memories, history of old CONEY ISLAND and the last ISLAND QUEEN pop up on Steamboats.org. Jim's keen memory correct with me missing the date for then old CONEY closing officially as September 6, 1971 with me a year off. Yet CONEY still lingered on somewhat in a shruken form with a renaissance later with a partial revival of the old glory.

Frank's memories riding the PRESIDENT up to CONEY for then Tall Stacks also on the money. Unfortunately I was tied up with Capt. John Beatty on his boat and never got to step on the PRESIDENT even once. People came down at all hours of the day and well into the late night and wee morning hours to just stand looking at the PRESIDENT. Other than her name she recalled the last ISLAND QUEEN. Those scenes never to be recaptured again.

Jim Reising offers also food for thought on prevailing story 'versions, legends' we've heard again and again. Betty Blake found that out being drawn up more than once with a PR campaign or turn on an old story.

I 'think' it was Capt. Clarke Hawley recalling one of the former captains of the DELTA QUEEN from California days making a trip on the DQ here on our rivers in later years. Jim Blum possibly may know as would Capt. Don Sanders. If it was Capt. King from California then he would have been really up there in years. Who knows here?

R. Dale Flick
Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Concerning the Str President preparing to land at the foot of Canal Street To quote the Late Harry Louden 'her top deck waved like a wheat field' (in the wind). Yep, she certainly did flex.

This thread contains Coney Island, the Island Queen,President, DQ and lots of characters. Now let me tell you of my experience, as some of you know I ran the river operations for several times at Tall Stacks. In October 1988 I had the President moved up to Coney Island for fitting out for her role in TS. I drove up in my car to make sure all was going well. I parked at the top of the hill and my view was blocked by the Coney Lighthouse building. As I walked around the corner of the building my heart stopped and I got chills, It looked just like in the 1940's. There was the President at the foot of the Coney ramp, framed by the Lighthouse entrance. It was a sight to never forget. I have several very good photos of this scene, maybe Dale can get them on here.

*Posting 1988 PRESIDENT photo at CONEY*
Morning, Bill,
I recall when you had the PRESIDENT moved up to CONEY, October, 1988 for 'Tall Stacks' but the park was closed for the season. WOW! was the PRESIDENT ever a show stopper tooling up and down at Dayton Bar below Mt. Adams here, docked at the landing. Those photos you have would be real winners either posted here or sent on to S&D REFLECTOR editor David Tschiggfrie for his consideration inside or on the covers of the REFLECTOR. I think also your experiences being traffic manager--and other responsbilities for 'Tall Stacks' a number of years--worthy of an article in the REFLECTOR or in condensed form here. Will we ever see another 'Tall Stacks?' Hummmm, doubt it--but who knows?

Right now I'm also dumb as mud on posting photos direct here on Steamboats.org. I remember when this feature was added by Franz but apparently I was asleep at the throttle and never mastered it. Judy Patsch, Jim Reising, Don Sanders, Keith Norrington and many others did get it down pat. *Perhaps 'somebody' could step up either here or in a private E=Mail with some tutorials. I've been converting tons of photos, slides, movies over to computer in digital form and would love to share some. This web site did have earlier the 'Photo of the week' on the homepage. Again, this proves what I DON'T know.

R. Dale Flick
Old Coal Haven Landing, Ohio River, Cincinnati

Done!

Dale, I already emailed Bill about your lack of posting photos on here and my willingness to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that Capt. Bill should be persuaded to write and article about "Traffic Managing" Tall Stacks. Let's get to work on him next weekend, shall we?