the Pilot, the Engineer and the Chief...

Lots of questions and many on this board can contribute, but I'll start first. Typically, the engineer on watch is responsible for answering the bells from the pilot house as soon as the bells or other signal is made. The engineer has his own settings on the throttle for the different speeds. Engineers like to know ahead of time if there will be changes. Experienced engineers usually know the river well enough to anticipate landings and locks. I have been told that old hands knew what bells would be rung from what pilots before they were even rung. While on the DQ I would call the engine room and/or boiler room to prepare them for any changes, especially if it was something out of the blue. At times a pilot or captain may not like a particular speed. A certain speed on the DQ would cause the pilothouse to shake. Or a little more oomph was needed for some swift current. The engineer would be called to change the settings a little, and asked kindly. There is technically no "in between" speed. You would just call to ooch things back or ahead a little. The speed, such as full or half, would still be the same, unless the pilot actually rang the bell for a different speed. There was a engine order indicator in the boiler room of the DQ. It may still be there. Rule #1, always keep an eye on that pressure gage. And the water level.

From the pilot house, we could tell what was going on down below by the wheel revolutions. It was expected that, say, full ahead would be so many rpms. All relative to river conditions, of course.

A bagged boiler is a bulge caused by low or no water in the boiler, thus the steel overheats and sags or warps, weakening the boiler shell. Not good. Usually means the boiler is fried and has to be replaced. And a fireman is fired. I don't know about the repairs to bagged boilers, if that is even possible.

Lexie/Bruno: I have read that bagged boilers were sometimes cooled down and beat back into shape with hammers. I seem to recall that this was a fairly routine thing to do. It is certainly caused by some localized overheating of the boiler shell which lowers the tensile strength at that point and at that elevated temperature to where the internal pressure bulges the shell outward. I think maybe that the Sultana's boilers were bagged and repaired shortly before the "event".

Thanks! The "bagged boiler" question came about from old S & D's that I have been relishing, specifically the "Log of the Steamer Boaz in 1906". Reading the log it seemed that a few times a year a "bag" was discovered and it was quickly repaired, as in a few days. Either Tom's explaination of the big hammer theory or my envisioned theory of new metal bolted into place after the bag was removed seems logical considering how short the repair time was. I would think that bolting a new section on would weaken the surrounding metal a bit, though...

How Times and Meanings Change

GOOGLE Bagged Boilers, today, and this is what you generally get:

Modern wood chip or pellet boilers are highly efficient, clean burning and totally automatic. Pellets can be purchased in bagged or bulk form.

Walnut was right.

Bagged boilers were the bane of the Chief Engineer. It wasn't so much low water in the boiler that would cause one to bag, but the unequal distribution of heat at the bottom of the boiler above the fires. Low water in the boiler still needs to be avoided, but that is more likely to cause a catastrophic explosion than a bagged boiler. If an engineer didn't blow down his boilers and keep them free from accumulating sediment, any scale that would form could keep the fire's heat from being equally distributed. A hot spot could develop where the sediment and scale accumulated and that area overheat and bag. The last steamboat to bag a boiler, to my knowledge, was the Str. PRESIDENT during her last trip as a steamboat.

There were a couple of remedies to a bagged boiler. First of all, pull your fires and wait for her to cool down. Then inspect the magnitude of the situation and where you are with your bagged boiler. The engineer could decide to build a fire brick casing around the bag, raise enough steam to get to a boiler yard and have repairs done or get new boilers. Another option was to go to the boiler yard and have the bag heated to cherry red and then hammered back into place. Chances are that the U.S. Steamboat Inspection Service's boiler inspector, whom was probably a licensed chief himself, would be overseeing the whole boiler yard operation, check things over, and give a yea or nay to the repairs.

Dad would always say that he could tell whom was steering by listening to the way they rang bells. He'd love to say that some pilots couldn't make any more noise if they put marbles in a tin pail and shook the pail around. Also on the old boats, and on the BELLE OF LOUISVILLE today, the striker usually handles the engines while over seen by the engineer. When bells ring though both will come a running to the foot box. Neither of them want a delay in answering bells.

I've also seen that a pilot rang to go from a half bell to a slow bell, or slow to half, and the engineer told me to answer back on the telegraph, and that was the extent that that bell was answered. NO, my father wasn't the engineer and it was a long time ago, but the pilot ringing would have had to have been Cappy Louden or C.S.Ware!

Bruno, Frank has the right answer. When silt formed on the bottom of the boiler it insulated that spot from the cooling (!) effect of the water. That spot would get hot enough to make the steel more or less elastic. When the steel bagged the silt would break and the water would instantly cool the bagged spot - self-healing, so to speak.

In 1966, I think, the Belle of Louisville bought a pair of Brown Fintube boilers. The back heads bulged during the first trip because the flames reached above the waterline in the boilers. We had to install longitudinal stay bolts from head to head and build a firebrick wall to protect the repaired boiler heads. In two years they were worn out and had to be replaced.

This was caused by parsimony. The board of directors was advised to accept the boilers with the greatest water capacity and the lowest firing rate. Instead, a tightwad on the board held out until they accepted the lowest bid, which was for the lowest water content and the highest firing rate. They were so bad the pilot was obliged to ring for a slow bell when he wanted to blow the whistle! Blowing the whistle could cause water to carry over into the steam line and to the cylinders.

Saving that first expense eventually cost the boat more than two million dollars.

Pilots do not give a hoot about rpm's. They want a particular speed and get it by verbal discussion with the engineer. The engineer has throttle settings for each bell signal.

Engineers did, indeed, keep track of where the boat was. Chet Foster told me one time, "Don't worry about hitting that wharfboat. I got marks all up and down that wharf." Chet kept an eye on the railroad trestle and if the pilot didn't ring to stop or back at the usual place, he intended to do it in any event. Sometimes bells didn't ring - a broken wire, a jammed chain, anything could happen. Having an engineer like Chet was a great comfort. Ask Kenny Howe.

Last bagged boiler

Unfortunately the PRESIDENT wasn't the last steamboat to have a bagged boiler. The NATCHEZ did, during a summer when I was working on her. In fact, I think both boilers were bagged in different years, which led to them eventually being replaced. We had several layups during my 11 summers for boiler repairs, so I don't remember the exact years.

Well, some of us were interested in RPMs. Kind of like a tell tale. I believe the Sprague had a rather intricate rig to the outside of the pilot house that was connected to the paddlewheel. This would tell pilots which way the wheel was turning and how fast, or in the Sprague's case, how slow. For those few who have NEVER been in the DQ pilot house, there is an indicator there, as well, that tells how fast and which way the wheel is turning. It also has a counter, which has probably turned over thousands of times.

From a Navy Perspective

Howdy -

I'm an ex USN steam guy - was taught on an old FF running 1200 PSI superheated steam. Talk about keeping you on your toes! There were places in the boiler room you were not allowed to go when the boilers were fired. And before turning any main steam valve, we would wave a broom over and around the valve. If it came back with the bristles still on, it was safe to turn the valve.

Here's my trivia contribution for the thread. I know this was applicable to the steam turbines used by the Navy back in the days, don't know about the steam boat crowd. Ever here the term all ahead 1/3, 2/3, full, and flank? The original steam turbines used by the Navy had three poppet valves on the inlet side. 1/3 told the engineers to open 1 poppet valve, 2/3 two poppet valves, and full all three poppet valves. Flank was open all poppet valves and give it as much steam as the boiler could make.

John

John, I had heard of "flank speed", probably in movies, but never really knew what it meant. On the rivers, 1/3 is about equal to "slow", 2/3 is 1/2 (Half-head has always been more than half of what speed the boat would make at full), and to "flank" on the rivers, is a downstream maneuver, backing slow to half, that towboats use to handle a tow floating downstream at current speed.

HI-Pressure Query

Mr. Hamilton brought up an interesting subject, and that is very high superheated steam pressure. I've often heard similar tales from former sailors about how waving a broom, or similar object in front of them as they moved around a high-pressure boiler, was necessary to detect high pressure steam leaks that are invisible and unseen, and would prove catastrophic to the unwary.

So..... I am wondering if there were any steamboats that carried pressures that were anything like what Mr. Hamilton describes. What about the DPCs or the "State Boats"? Didn't they have triple-expansion steam engines? What pressures did they carry? And did any river steamers have steam turbines for propulsion?

I've heard from a few sources that the broom technique is used in the power generating industry, also, no matter if it be nuclear or fossil fueled. When above a certain steam pressure, if you see excess steam in your mechanical room, or are losing a bit of pressure for an unknown reason, you never use your hands to feel for leaks. And you won't hear the leak either as the sound it makes is above ear threshold. I've also been clued in that with very high pressure steam plants, any valves, a common source for leaks, should be placed well above head level, to avoid the potential "tomahawk" on a head, see below.

I've been told that it has nothing to due with burning, it has to do with losing fingers as the steam is so forceful it acts as a very fast, silent knife.

1200 PSI, my Gawd...without my tables handy, I'm ballparking 900 degrees!

Shipyard, the four boats built and called state boats, but really were not, were the Indiana, Louisiana, Tennessee and Ohio. They had turbines.

The real Goltra "State boats", the Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa and Missouri were triple expansion after conversion from sternwheel to props. The Goltra "City boats" Cairo, Vicksburg, Memphis, Natchez and St. Louis were all triple expansion.

All the 21 DPC's were triple expansion.

Bruno: The typical western river boat had long-stroke engines as you well know. They could tolerate steam without much if any superheat and I'll say that when the exhaust valve opened, there was more than a bit of moisture in the steam...you cannot see steam but you sure can see the exhaust on steamers like the BOL...and what you can see is water, not steam. At work, we usta run turbines...mostly little one-stage Terry or Elliotts on 300 psi steam (fairly low pressure for turbines) where saturation was about 440 degrees F. We goosed it up to 650 degrees mostly to assure that the steam was DRY when it got to the turbines as ANY liquid in the steam would knife the turbine blades or badly erode the wheel. A real advantage of a turbine is that there is NO oil added to the steam...all of the lube being on the other side of the bearing seals. Those running a system that condenses the steam for re-use (DQ and MISSIE, do) you must take all the oil out of the steam as it tends to cause hot spots as does scale etc. (see bagging and burst tubes etc). We would sometimes open a turbine upon our yearly boiler outage and often not...running them several years non-stop...sometimes many years before any real maintenance. The disadvantage in river usage is that turbines develop their horse-power at screamingly high rotating speeds necessitating elaborate and heavy reduction gears for even propeller speeds let alone paddle wheel speeds. We also ran one 1200 psi boiler but not for turbines...rather we wanted the higher temperature for faster heat transfer to the process we were driving with it (distilling fatty acids)...it's saturation temperature is a bit over 570 degrees F. And, yes, looking for a steam leak on even 300 pound steam required a broomstick or some such. We never used a broom as it would likely cut the straws off and ruin it. The stick would lurch in your hand and be cut by it but would likely live to detect a leak another day. Live steam will cut a valve face or leaking flange like a saw. We usta call "Leaks" as we called them as they would work on HOT steam lines to repair leaks. They had a bag of tricks including pumping a substance into a line to fill and seal a leaking flange or valve. We had to do this as management found it much cheaper to pay them their premium wages rather than shut down. Sometimes we would loose the use of a valve as the stuff they pumped in would "freeze" the innerds and it would then have to be replaced at annual shutdown. Since our main steam line on the 300 psi unit was 16" diameter, these valves were not available at the Wal-Mart. While I've not seen it done, but I've heard that they sometimes literally freeze the line to condense the steam and freeze it to stop the flow to fix a leaking line while the unit is running...some trick!! Normally, 1200 psi steam for turbine use would have a good deal of superheat and thus may well be 900 degrees F or so. The advantage to a steamer like the BOL of using superheat is that the piston would travel further in the stroke before condensation takes place with its gross reduction in volume, hence loosing steam pressure. The disadvantage of much superheat in such engines is that the lubricant literally cannot stand the heat and tends to char and loose it's lubricity.

Tom, wonderful stuff, couldn't read it fast enough, am I a true nerd or what? In my business, freezing live piping for repair or alteration is quite common, but the stuff I deal with is rarely over 220 degrees. Typically used are liquid CO2 and Nitrogen as freezing agents. Works like a champ...gotta be a little careful as the piping, especially copper becomes a little brittle if you are heavy handed with the freezing agent. The trick is to freeze the piping, both sides, a bit away from where you need to do the work.

Seal a leaky valve stem with an injected chemical? Never heard of that, gotta do some research, could come in real handy...sorta like "spare tire in a can"...

Freeze live high pressure steam? Now that IS a trick...I guess you gotta be real careful when you thaw piping like that...needs to be done REAL slow...a slug of condensate in high pressure steam piping?...brrrr...

Even water will cut a valve seat (we call it "wiring"), and I have to take care in sizing balancing and control valves so that they aren't too big. If a valve is oversized, it would have to be almost totally closed to do any throttling, a sure fire way to destroy the valve seat with high water velocity.

The pilothouse indicator on the NATCHEZ is from an old Navy ship, and its speeds are 1/3 2/3 and full rather than the traditional river terms. I don't know from what ship it came, perhaps Bubba Dow knows.

I'm not exactly sure, but I can ask around

As I seem to do, I need to ask a bit more, bear with me. In today's time of extremely high fuel prices, is there now any type of destination planning, ala the airlines, on today's steamboats or towboats?

I guess what I am asking is there any type of pre-discussion, semi-conference between pilots/master to come up with a plan toward the best way possible, the following:

We have at least 12 hours to get where we are going...
We have 40 miles to cover in those twelve+ hours...
We are headed against current, but the current is mild...
Therefore we think we should really need 5.5 revs on the paddlewheel (or in the case of towboats X-mph) continuous, no more, no less. Let's talk to the engineer and the Chief...now...
We'll check our progress against GPS and adjust if it needs tweaking...

Or is it basically, balls out, and so what if we get there early, sooner off watch and therefore more sleep for the pilots?

Whatever It Takes...

"...is there any type of pre-discussion, semi-conference between pilots/master..."

I can't speak for the crew aboard those steamboats, these days, but when I was working over there, a continuous dialog took place between the Captain, Pilot, and, and Chief Engineer concerning the boat's performance and the ETA to the next stop or the destination.

No one knew the DELTA QUEEN better than Captain Wagner, and he knew exactly what tweaking was needed to get to where we were scheduled to be. If we were going to be late, or have to miss a stop reroute; then that information was known beforehand, and if a telephone could be found at a lock, or shore stop, this was relayed to the office who could make adjustments as needed to co-ordinate with tour busses, travel arrangements, and the mayor and bandleader of the high school band waiting on the shore to welcome the DELTA QUEEN to their town. The marine radiotelephone was also used if the boat was in range of a station.

I cannot imagine this is not still going on in the pilothouse, today, as getting up, or down, the river on time is what it's all about. When I was Captain, I even preached the Sunday service in the Pirate's Cave at Cave-in-Rock to get the boat up to the next lock on time.

Thanks Sam, and that's sorta what I have seen also when distance is long and time is short, the crew does their darnedest to get there, with lots of cell phones in use.

But the question I still have is if it's the opposite, i.e. distance is short and time is long, can the boat purposly slow down? It seems to me that the DQ is still pushing at 9 revs even as we pull into a port at 2 in the morning. It seems to this obviously untrained eye that the boat rarely slows down except for locking and waiting for towboat right of way. Maybe there is no fuel saved to go slower, but I doubt it. Just curious, if a newer "scientific" method for trip planning is being tried nowadays, especially upbound...

Time is important on the Belle of Louisville where the distance and the time are both short. One amusing aspect was that Chet Foster, a chief, lived in Mauckport, Indiana, about a half-hour's drive from Louisville. On night trips the boat would amble along, so-so until the turn was made to go back to the wharf. If Chet was on watch the boat would gradually built up an amibiton to get back to that wharf. When the master or the pilot noticed the door rattling and the sash clattering it was time to call Chet and request a more leisurely pace. Some passengers who have additional appointments after a trip can get angry when the landing is delayed. Others want the ride to go on and on...and on. They become unhappy if the boat lands a few minutes ahead of time.

Bruno, I cannot speak for the steamboats today and what they might or might not do, but when I was on the steamboats, the schedule was pretty close to what we could really expect to make, so not much "play" was required. Sometimes there would be, as Sam said, a contingent of welcomers at a particular landing, so if we saw we would get in at 6:00 instead of 8:00 as planned, we'd make that adjustment close to the arrival. There was always a little bit of "wiggle room" built into the schedule for weather, traffic and lock delay, so if these did not occur there might be a bit of extra time to kill.

One thing that used to really gripe the towboats, especially on the Upper Miss, was when the DQ would come up on a lock after the towboat had been waiting for several hours (or even days), jump to the head of the line taking priority through the lock, and then a few hours later the same towboat that got bumped on lock turn passes the DQ pushed into the bank for a "schedule adjustment". This resentment is often compunded when it may happen more than once in a trip!

As far as towboats are concerned, we generally try to get to our destination as fast as we can. We do run cut back downbound nowadays as a fuel-saving measure -- very little in the way of lost speed with great fuel savings. There is a device that electronically controls engine speed so that a boat can make a constant speed over ground, maximizing fuel usage, etc., but the device is expensive and takes a while to learn to use properly; only a few boats have them. After all that, you still have traffic, lock and weather delays, so E.T.A.'s are just an educated guess. Usually the customer wants us there as fast as possible, so we try to make as much speed as possible, not being on a schedule like the passenger boats. If we arrive at a destination before the customer is ready for us, we get paid demurrage, so the company wants us to get there ASAP, too. In some cases, we can make more money by standing by that we can by running.

Injected Chemicals

For injected chemical techniques for repair of pipelines and valves while in use see: Furmanite ~ Maximizing Asset Uptime - Interesting reading.