Marine Accidents !

Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 676
Topic starter  

Greetings From New Orleans ,
To the best of my recollection there has been very little attention paid to one aspect of the marine industry at this web site and that is of marine accidents . Through out my career in the marine industry I have been either personally involved with or have witnessed marine accidents and although much has already been written about such events there is always something intriguing about them that has always interested me .
I've witnessed accidents when I worked on the steam boats , when I worked on the tow boats and especially now when I am working on the ships .
Countless books have been written about marine accidents , courses are given on how to prevent accidents , the Coast Guard has implemented rules and regulations to prevent them , companies have initiated their own rules and regulations to prevent them and yet they still occur .
I even teach a course at MPI , on Safety and Risk Assessment , and have studied a number of classic accidents in the marine industry and have come to the conclusion there are usually a number of variables that come into play and how we as professional pilots can first of all recognize them and then more importantly take the necessary steps to deal with them .
We as NOBRA Pilots are very pro active with our continuing education program and we train so we will be able to step up the plate and make and take the right decision and action to deal with an impending accident ! Some once said , " If you think safety is expensive , try having an accident " ! No , truer words were ever spoken and this is just another aspect of the role of the Pilot !
The question that I have always pondered is whether accidents will ever be prevented all together ?? My eventual answer is simply NO due to both the human factor and due to mechanical issues that have and will continue to occur . Consequently , and in my opinion , if we will never stop an accident from occurring , we must simply learn how to remediate the incident and to minimize the potential damage that is about to occur !
One aspect of the role of a Pilot , is a Risk Assessor ! From his skill and experience he has to be the one to step up the plate look the situation over and make the decisions on what to do , how to do it and when to do it !
Yesterday , on a ship I was personally involved in and witnessed another marine accident .
Yesterday , I was on an empty grain ship and when approaching the grain elevator a series of events occurred that were totally out of my control , but I had to make and take the split second decisions and actions to either stop the accident from occurring or to at least minimize the damage that was about to happen . I will always remember that there are those in the local New Orleans , marine industry that think of and refer to Pilots as , " Overpaid and glorified bus drivers " , but believe me a bus driver will not be found on an out of control ship !
First of all , the ship I was on when we approached the dock lost her engine .
Secondly , the bow tug's radio failed while the tug was pushing in on a Slow Bell .
Thirdly , after getting the tug Captains attention by rapidly blowing the ship's whistle , he went to his back up radio and dutifully answered my commands .
Fourthly , when he went astern on his engines to check the inbound swing of the bow of the ship into the grain elevator , his tug's line broke !
To further complicate the situation there was a hard on shore wind and we simply ran out of time and space to rectify the situation .
I was able to drop the ship's port anchor and to steer the ship to port and to hopefully land the ship flat along side the grain elevator's fender system .
Unfortunately there was some damage done to the elevator's forward fender system but more importantly there was no damage to the ship , there was no pollution and most important of all there was no loss of life !
For those of us that actually work in the marine industry , regardless of what capacity we serve in and on every type of vessel , we have all witnessed the events that have led up to an accident and then have attempted to come up with both appropriate and timely solutions and actions to prevent such accidents . Having said that , as I said before , I don't believe that we will ever totally prevent accidents from occurring !
There are also a number of " River Expressions " , that come with marine accidents ranging from , " Well , thats why they have ship yards " to
" Well , s_ _t happens " !!
As Pilots , none of us are " Bullet Proof " and sooner or latter , we will all be faced with situations and delimas that will not only put ourselves and others in harms way but will require us to make and take the right decisions and then be judged by others that are not pilots on whether or not we did and
performe as they think we should have on that day , in that situation and at that moment in time !
Welcome to our world as Pilots !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 705993.jpg5994.jpg5995.jpg



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 841
 

Ted,

you left out, "It didn't happen on my watch!"

The truly terrifying aspect of marine accidents is that they happen so slowly. The pilot and crew can see it coming for minutes before the crash, yet are helpless to avoid it. Often a pilot is obliged to choose which of two accidents to have, then try to take the lesser one.

The USCG and the Congress can make rules, preachers can pray and owners can threaten to no avail. They will still occur.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Captain Ted, Anyone who has heard my pilothouse tour knows the immense respect I have for those of you who have earned that license. As much as I would love to sit in your seat, I know in my heart I don't have what it takes--that elusive something that kicks in when it is decision time. I've seen it in minor situations, and can only imagine a big story playing out. Nevertheless, I know that when it does, a true pilot (like the ones I know) remains calm and focused as he or she runs through the various choices and does the job.
One of my favorite TV programs is National Geographic's "Seconds From Disaster." They dissect all kinds of failures, from the Amtrak crash off a bridge in which a tow hitting the bridge was a factor, to airline crashes. But as you point out, it is never just one factor. It is always a series of often small things that conspire to work together at a "perfect storm" of a moment. The steering fails, the radio fails, the attention may lapse, the line breaks. It is difficult to "plan" for disaster--but in a sense, that is what the industry attempts to do with drills and inspections. The good captain and mate is always checking that the equipment is in working order; the good engineer is constantly testing his equipment. But equipment gets old; the economy gets bad; companies cut here and there, and before you know it, things may not be replaced as fast as the captain or engineer might like. This, of course, puts the folks actually on the vessel in a difficult spot. And it eventually puts a pilot like yourself there, too!



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Sigh! I have spent many years investigating accidents...none of them marine oriented but I suspect that there are many similarities. We had an accident at work many years ago that took one life and another would never work again. As a result, the company subscribed to a sophisticated safety program. I was the one that was trained by them and had to communicate that to the over 500 workers in the plant over a period of YEARS. We went from 56 lost time accidents per year to 2. Their basic philosophy was that 93% of all accidents were due to unsafe acts. Ted, in the case you cite, I'd look into the engine that failed at a critical time...was it shut down for needed maintenance or soldiered on with a "wing and a prayer"? Same for the failed radio and the weakened bow line. Chances are good that the accident did not happen on the watch of the perpetrator of the unsafe act/s. We all know what happens when many people drive the same automobile...chances are good it will run out of gas and who is to fault (din't happen on my watch, as Alan sez)...leaving someone else to avoid the accident or clean up the mess. "AW, we can make one more trip"..."they can fix that safer in daylight"..."we can always use the back-up radio" etc, etc. It is much easier to blame "things" than people...bad engine; bad radio; rotten bow line. Harry Truman was right about this: "The buck stops here". Safety often involves a complete culture change. Training is critical. Consider a US Navy aircraft carrier. Considering all the flammable liquids (fuel), high explosives (bombs and ammo), expensive, powerful aircraft loaded with same, high pressure steam for the cat shot, traffic on a crowded flight deck and the fact that the ages of the workers is from the late teens to the early to mid-twenties. The ONLY way to make it work is rigid training and the assumption of responsibility. It is human nature to not like either one! What do you s'pose would happen if you turned all those young boys and girls loose on that flight deck without training? Ted, guys like you hafta make do when the regular crew fails. A big job indeed! Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

It goes without saying that there are moral and legal aspects to accidents. They don't always coincide. In the above scene, the employer had a proceedure in place and it was violated by the employees causing an explosion. The company had trained the employees or they would have had no idea how to make the product, but there was no documentation to show it. No tickee no shirtee! That's why you sign in to training sessions any more. The company generally gets it in the end and they did in this case. Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Cap'n Walnut, that reminds me of a book I heard about, regarding the importance of checklists. Having them increases safety incredibly, as I am sure you can attest. When an employee has to sign off that he or she physically checked to see that the battery was good on the radio, that the oil was changed on the engine on a certain date, the line was examined on watch, then accountability increases. Signing your name at the bottom of a checklist makes you think twice.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 841
 

Years ago Ashland Oil Co. made a survey of lost time accident causes. They found that the one tool that caused most of them was. . .the common flat-blade screwdriver!



   
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 676
Topic starter  

The " OODA Loop " !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
One of the many theories on safety that I teach at the MPI , Safety and Risk Assessment course is what is refered to as the " OODA Loop " .
Years ago an Air Force Colonel came up with a theory for flight and combat safety that was designed for his fighter pilots but has been incorporated into the transportation world as well .
Essentially , this theory became known simply as the " OODA Loop " and wheather or not we as pilots consciencly recogniize it or not , when we as mariners take the " Con " or simply step between the " Sticks " , we all basically perform the same routine when navigateing a ship , a tow boat or simply flying 500 mph , just off the deck ( the ground ) .
" OODA Loop " is simmply : Obseving , Orienting , Deciding , and then Acting !
Imagine this as a continuous LOOP and in theory if the Pilot or Navigator fails to perform each step in this continous cycle of events , then if it is a Combat Pilot , well he will simply crash and burn !!
Hopfully , the end result will not be as dramatic in the case of the Marine Navigator , but if he too fails to follow this contineous cycle of events , then he too will meet with what we affectionally refer to as " A Bad Day At The Office " !
Smooth Sailing !
NOBRA 70

Ted Davisson;23227 wrote: Greetings From New Orleans ,
To the best of my recollection there has been very little attention paid to one aspect of the marine industry at this web site and that is of marine accidents . Through out my career in the marine industry I have been either personally involved with or have witnessed marine accidents and although much has already been written about such events there is always something intriguing about them that has always interested me .
I've witnessed accidents when I worked on the steam boats , when I worked on the tow boats and especially now when I am working on the ships .
Countless books have been written about marine accidents , courses are given on how to prevent accidents , the Coast Guard has implemented rules and regulations to prevent them , companies have initiated their own rules and regulations to prevent them and yet they still occur .
I even teach a course at MPI , on Safety and Risk Assessment , and have studied a number of classic accidents in the marine industry and have come to the conclusion there are usually a number of variables that come into play and how we as professional pilots can first of all recognize them and then more importantly take the necessary steps to deal with them .
We as NOBRA Pilots are very pro active with our continuing education program and we train so we will be able to step up the plate and make and take the right decision and action to deal with an impending accident ! Some once said , " If you think safety is expensive , try having an accident " ! No , truer words were ever spoken and this is just another aspect of the role of the Pilot !
The question that I have always pondered is whether accidents will ever be prevented all together ?? My eventual answer is simply NO due to both the human factor and due to mechanical issues that have and will continue to occur . Consequently , and in my opinion , if we will never stop an accident from occurring , we must simply learn how to remediate the incident and to minimize the potential damage that is about to occur !
One aspect of the role of a Pilot , is a Risk Assessor ! From his skill and experience he has to be the one to step up the plate look the situation over and make the decisions on what to do , how to do it and when to do it !
Yesterday , on a ship I was personally involved in and witnessed another marine accident .
Yesterday , I was on an empty grain ship and when approaching the grain elevator a series of events occurred that were totally out of my control , but I had to make and take the split second decisions and actions to either stop the accident from occurring or to at least minimize the damage that was about to happen . I will always remember that there are those in the local New Orleans , marine industry that think of and refer to Pilots as , " Overpaid and glorified bus drivers " , but believe me a bus driver will not be found on an out of control ship !
First of all , the ship I was on when we approached the dock lost her engine .
Secondly , the bow tug's radio failed while the tug was pushing in on a Slow Bell .
Thirdly , after getting the tug Captains attention by rapidly blowing the ship's whistle , he went to his back up radio and dutifully answered my commands .
Fourthly , when he went astern on his engines to check the inbound swing of the bow of the ship into the grain elevator , his tug's line broke !
To further complicate the situation there was a hard on shore wind and we simply ran out of time and space to rectify the situation .
I was able to drop the ship's port anchor and to steer the ship to port and to hopefully land the ship flat along side the grain elevator's fender system .
Unfortunately there was some damage done to the elevator's forward fender system but more importantly there was no damage to the ship , there was no pollution and most important of all there was no loss of life !
For those of us that actually work in the marine industry , regardless of what capacity we serve in and on every type of vessel , we have all witnessed the events that have led up to an accident and then have attempted to come up with both appropriate and timely solutions and actions to prevent such accidents . Having said that , as I said before , I don't believe that we will ever totally prevent accidents from occurring !
There are also a number of " River Expressions " , that come with marine accidents ranging from , " Well , thats why they have ship yards " to
" Well , s_ _t happens " !!
As Pilots , none of us are " Bullet Proof " and sooner or latter , we will all be faced with situations and delimas that will not only put ourselves and others in harms way but will require us to make and take the right decisions and then be judged by others that are not pilots on whether or not we did and
performe as they think we should have on that day , in that situation and at that moment in time !
Welcome to our world as Pilots !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70



   
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 132
 

Assign the Blame

The topic of this thread hits a VERY SORE POINT with me. I have been involved in several marine accidents and witnessed a number of others. When not working in the marine industry, I have spent a good deal of time in the Aviation industry. Both give a great deal of lip service to accident prevention and safety.
Both of these industries and many others, just like our general society respond to accidents, not by investigation and prevention, but by blame assessment. I agree that people make mistakes and miss responisbilities and there needs to be corrective action taken. However assessment of blame and punishmemt are not effective measures in preventing accidents.
Understand, I have no problem with a company making a profit, until profit over rides safety and the persons who stand to lose the most from accidents are also used as the "Fall Guys" in accident investigations.
Until accident investigations are conducted for the propose of true cause, and regulations written to cover all phased of the industry, and all people involved in the industry, U.S.C.G. doucment holders or not, this whole thread is BULLS**T.
Unless a person has EVERY TOOL NEEDED to achive a directed goal, that person CANNOT be held as the only person responsibile in the event of an accident. If there is one other group or person involved in any situation, than all parties have a part in the responsibility and any puntive action taken due to an accident.
So long as the regulation writers and enforcers do not themselves have to meet the standerds they are setting out. Accidents will still happen at a level far greater than the statical average.
So long as maritime accident investigation stops at the handrails of a vessel and the reality of a companies operating policys are not also investigated. The investigation and investigating agenys are nothing more than a joke. Often times a very bad joke that seriously effects the livelyhood of those who have to walk the balance between company demands and safe and proper seamanship.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Excellent points. A checklist could very well wind up supporting the employee. It's possible there were no batteries available, no new line to replace worn line, etc., and the employee has documented numerous requests for supplies that have gone unanswered. But sometimes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease--and the grease is sometimes a pink slip. Most employees serve these days at the pleasure of their employer, so protection for doing the right thing, like calling potential safety issues (no matter the stated goals of the company) in question may not always get you promoted. I am not the greatest fan of unions, but in this case, they did provide a process to protect their members. I've heard enough stories from friends in transportation industries to know that there certainly are companies who will hire workers willing to get the job done, no matter how it is done. If you are not willing to put up with the conditions, then you can look elsewhere for a job.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Excellent points! NOBODY wants to be held responsible...thus the beat goes on. If there were no batteries available, SOMEONE perhaps used them for something else or someone responsible did not replace them in a timely manner. But there usualy is someone at the root cause. LOTS of heat is generated when you look for them and few want to risk their ire. Sometimes it is red faces in management...poor or lack management. But having seen scalded personnel, broken limbs and one too many early funerals, I think it is well worth offending some. We also investigated unsafe acts that did not result in accidents to raise awareness and modify/enforce procedures. 56 lost time accidents in a year down to two was dramatic. Getting from two to zero is TOUGH. We twice worked a million hours without a lost time accident. That is a lot of human misery and a ton of money saved. THe employees and many in management resisted noisily but now, having enjoyed the results, you could not get them to go back at the point of a gun. Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 676
Topic starter  

" Right On " , Fred !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
" Right On " , Fred !
As usual you hit the ball right out of the park and your right on the money !
One of my pet peeves is simply when amateurs dictate to experts on matters that they usually know very little about ! As I alluded to earliere, is that when there is an accident , amateurs will with out a doubt dictate to the experts and then worst than that , they will sit in judgement and then come up with all these unrealalistic rules and regulations that we and the marine industry will then have to deal with .
When I was involved in the Brightfield incident , the NTSB ( National Transportation and Safety Board ) , not only sat in judgement of me , the NOBRA Pilot Association , the Coast Guard and the entire local marine industry ! Guess what ?? Not a single member oi that board , at the time , had a lick of marine experience and I just bet none of them could honestly tell you the difference between the bow and stern of a boat !!
Go Figure !
Welcome to the Marine World that I and others have to work and live in !!
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Fred Carmichael;23244 wrote: The topic of this thread hits a VERY SORE POINT with me. I have been involved in several marine accidents and witnessed a number of others. When not working in the marine industry, I have spent a good deal of time in the Aviation industry. Both give a great deal of lip service to accident prevention and safety.
Both of these industries and many others, just like our general society respond to accidents, not by investigation and prevention, but by blame assessment. I agree that people make mistakes and miss responisbilities and there needs to be corrective action taken. However assessment of blame and punishmemt are not effective measures in preventing accidents.
Understand, I have no problem with a company making a profit, until profit over rides safety and the persons who stand to lose the most from accidents are also used as the "Fall Guys" in accident investigations.
Until accident investigations are conducted for the propose of true cause, and regulations written to cover all phased of the industry, and all people involved in the industry, U.S.C.G. doucment holders or not, this whole thread is BULLS**T.
Unless a person has EVERY TOOL NEEDED to achive a directed goal, that person CANNOT be held as the only person responsibile in the event of an accident. If there is one other group or person involved in any situation, than all parties have a part in the responsibility and any puntive action taken due to an accident.
So long as the regulation writers and enforcers do not themselves have to meet the standerds they are setting out. Accidents will still happen at a level far greater than the statical average.
So long as maritime accident investigation stops at the handrails of a vessel and the reality of a companies operating policys are not also investigated. The investigation and investigating agenys are nothing more than a joke. Often times a very bad joke that seriously effects the livelyhood of those who have to walk the balance between company demands and safe and proper seamanship.



   
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 676
Topic starter  

No Rewind Button !

Greetings From New Orleans ,
The real problem with marine accidents is simply put there is no rewind button ! There is no rewind button on the console to change or break the chain of events that lead up to a marine accident ! There is however an instant replay button that often times gets stuck in the play position and for those of us that are inolved in this incident , we are forced to replay and relive the events and out come of the marine accidents that we are either directly or indirectly involved in .
Everyone plays the " Blame Game " , wheather it be the company , the Coast Guard , and especially the other guy ! Everyone is obsessed with pointing the finger and assessing blame for monetary reasons , but how often if ever has anyone ever stood up to the plate and simply said , yes it was my fault ??
Sure , we can tell ourselves that it was NOT our fault , it was the engineers fault for not maintaining the equipment , it was the weather's fault for shutting you out in fog , and of course it was the other pilot's fault for not catering to your needs or meeting your expectations and abilities !
I often wondered how often Captain Wagner and Captain Louden agonized over the decision to go through the Madison bridge in shut out fog and then face up to the Madison yacht mariina ??
I often replay the chain of events that took me into the New Orleans , River Walk on the Chinese flagged , Brightfield !
I use to think that a good pilot could ALWAYS pull that rabbit out of the hat and change to course of events that were leading up to a very bad out come ! Then I was rather rudly introduced into the real world of the marine world !
In my opinion the only good thing that comes with the instant replay button is to honestly and unbiasly review the details of the accident and to hopfully in some way learn from this incident and to not allow it to happen again !
I've been piloting ships now for over thirty years and seldom do I not learn something from every assignment that I report to !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Ted Davisson;23227 wrote: Greetings From New Orleans ,
To the best of my recollection there has been very little attention paid to one aspect of the marine industry at this web site and that is of marine accidents . Through out my career in the marine industry I have been either personally involved with or have witnessed marine accidents and although much has already been written about such events there is always something intriguing about them that has always interested me .
I've witnessed accidents when I worked on the steam boats , when I worked on the tow boats and especially now when I am working on the ships .
Countless books have been written about marine accidents , courses are given on how to prevent accidents , the Coast Guard has implemented rules and regulations to prevent them , companies have initiated their own rules and regulations to prevent them and yet they still occur .
I even teach a course at MPI , on Safety and Risk Assessment , and have studied a number of classic accidents in the marine industry and have come to the conclusion there are usually a number of variables that come into play and how we as professional pilots can first of all recognize them and then more importantly take the necessary steps to deal with them .
We as NOBRA Pilots are very pro active with our continuing education program and we train so we will be able to step up the plate and make and take the right decision and action to deal with an impending accident ! Some once said , " If you think safety is expensive , try having an accident " ! No , truer words were ever spoken and this is just another aspect of the role of the Pilot !
The question that I have always pondered is whether accidents will ever be prevented all together ?? My eventual answer is simply NO due to both the human factor and due to mechanical issues that have and will continue to occur . Consequently , and in my opinion , if we will never stop an accident from occurring , we must simply learn how to remediate the incident and to minimize the potential damage that is about to occur !
One aspect of the role of a Pilot , is a Risk Assessor ! From his skill and experience he has to be the one to step up the plate look the situation over and make the decisions on what to do , how to do it and when to do it !
Yesterday , on a ship I was personally involved in and witnessed another marine accident .
Yesterday , I was on an empty grain ship and when approaching the grain elevator a series of events occurred that were totally out of my control , but I had to make and take the split second decisions and actions to either stop the accident from occurring or to at least minimize the damage that was about to happen . I will always remember that there are those in the local New Orleans , marine industry that think of and refer to Pilots as , " Overpaid and glorified bus drivers " , but believe me a bus driver will not be found on an out of control ship !
First of all , the ship I was on when we approached the dock lost her engine .
Secondly , the bow tug's radio failed while the tug was pushing in on a Slow Bell .
Thirdly , after getting the tug Captains attention by rapidly blowing the ship's whistle , he went to his back up radio and dutifully answered my commands .
Fourthly , when he went astern on his engines to check the inbound swing of the bow of the ship into the grain elevator , his tug's line broke !
To further complicate the situation there was a hard on shore wind and we simply ran out of time and space to rectify the situation .
I was able to drop the ship's port anchor and to steer the ship to port and to hopefully land the ship flat along side the grain elevator's fender system .
Unfortunately there was some damage done to the elevator's forward fender system but more importantly there was no damage to the ship , there was no pollution and most important of all there was no loss of life !
For those of us that actually work in the marine industry , regardless of what capacity we serve in and on every type of vessel , we have all witnessed the events that have led up to an accident and then have attempted to come up with both appropriate and timely solutions and actions to prevent such accidents . Having said that , as I said before , I don't believe that we will ever totally prevent accidents from occurring !
There are also a number of " River Expressions " , that come with marine accidents ranging from , " Well , thats why they have ship yards " to
" Well , s_ _t happens " !!
As Pilots , none of us are " Bullet Proof " and sooner or latter , we will all be faced with situations and delimas that will not only put ourselves and others in harms way but will require us to make and take the right decisions and then be judged by others that are not pilots on whether or not we did and
performe as they think we should have on that day , in that situation and at that moment in time !
Welcome to our world as Pilots !
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson
NOBRA 70



   
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 42
 

Marine accidents, or any other kind, are all related to people. All the SOP's, rules, regulations mean nothing unless all the people involved are always alert as to what is going on. Of course, this can become a problem when things get routine. A few examples.

1) About 30 years ago, I was a private pilot, and one of the flying magazines I read had this story about an "almost" accident. An airliner was taking off from Phoenix. The crew went through their pre-take off check list, and started their take off run. At the speed the plane was supposed to start lifting off, nothing happened. They aborted the take off. They tried again. Same thing. On the third try, going down the check list they got to "flaps down 10 degrees." "Check." "Wait, flaps are up!"

2) When I was in the Army, I worked in a location where we tested chemical warfare weapons Talk about HAZMAT! We had an alarm system that was tested weekly, so everyone got used to hearing it go off. My lab had a spill of nerve agent, theoretically enough to kill 50,000 people. We set off the alarm, put on our gas masks, and evacuated. At the other end of the building, here's a bunch of officers just sitting around. "We thought it was just another test."

3) I now volunteer at a railroad museum, and am certified as a locomotive engineer. Last year, the engineer on a commuter train in LA was texting on his cell phone, ran a red signal, had a head-on with a freight, and killed 28 people. The gov't has now banned even the possession of a cell phone by operating train crews. Last month BNSF Railway lost a 25 or 30 year employee. He was talking on his cell phone, and walked around the rear of his train, onto an adjacent track into the path of another train.

So, safety really comes down to people paying attention, which can range from attention to what is happening now, down to reporting and not using defective equipment. And,of course, in the latter case, management doing something about the defective equipment.

It all relates to people. People make mistakes. I think that reducing accidents to "zero" is a total impossibility. Certainly do all you can to reduce them, but that last 1 or 2% isn't going to happen.



   
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 201
 

The correction below actually proves some of the points raised in this discussion.

"And after numerous viewings of a tape, it was determined that the victim of the train accident was not on the cell phone at the time of the accident, and at the time of the accident, his cell phone was not in his hand,"[

Jim Baker;23502 wrote: 3) Last month BNSF Railway lost a 25 or 30 year employee. He was talking on his cell phone, and walked around the rear of his train, onto an adjacent track into the path of another train.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 778
 

Bruce: Having investigated MANY accidents, I'll almost guarantee that the first version of how it happened will prove out to be untrue. Go figure! Cap'n Walnut



   
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Joined: 19 years ago
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Topic starter  

Cell Phones And Accidents !

Greetings From New Orleans !
Cell Phones And Accidents , what a potential deadly combination , regardless of the environment that they are used in ! I cannot speak with authority on the nature of other industrial accident investigations , but I do know for certain that in the world of marine accident investigations , one of the very first questions that an investigator or an attorney will ask is , " were you on the cell phone " ??
We all know that the cell phone has become a part and necessity of every day life and when used properly and correctly it has saved lives and just possibly prevented accidents , but when not used appropriately it has become the REASON for the accident !
In the NOBRA pilot association , in our continuing education program , we have a course on Safety and Risk Assessment , and in that course we have an entire chapter dedicated on the proper use of the cell phone . Over the years in the NOBRA pilot association the cell phone has become an important tool in the art of piloting ships on the Mississippi River . We as pilots , use the cell phone to call shipping agents , tug boat companies , grain elevators and oil terminals , place pilot orders with the Crescent River Port Pilots Association , order personal transportation , and to notify the Coast Guard of possibly any one of a number of different issues .
Furthermore , years ago before the cell phone we had to rely on the vhf radio to call launch boat services , who would then place a land line call to the same agencies that were just listed . This practice was not reliable from the standpoint that if you were out of radio range of a launch boat service , you were out of LUCK to get a call through as well ! Now , like in other industries we have the convenience to make these same calls directly to the necessary contact .
Having said all that , without question the cell phone has evolved into a safety issue and when NOT used appropriately it has become at the very least a distraction and even much more the CAUSE for an accident !!
Smooth Sailing !
Ted Davisson

Jim Baker;23502 wrote: Marine accidents, or any other kind, are all related to people. All the SOP's, rules, regulations mean nothing unless all the people involved are always alert as to what is going on. Of course, this can become a problem when things get routine. A few examples.

1) About 30 years ago, I was a private pilot, and one of the flying magazines I read had this story about an "almost" accident. An airliner was taking off from Phoenix. The crew went through their pre-take off check list, and started their take off run. At the speed the plane was supposed to start lifting off, nothing happened. They aborted the take off. They tried again. Same thing. On the third try, going down the check list they got to "flaps down 10 degrees." "Check." "Wait, flaps are up!"

2) When I was in the Army, I worked in a location where we tested chemical warfare weapons Talk about HAZMAT! We had an alarm system that was tested weekly, so everyone got used to hearing it go off. My lab had a spill of nerve agent, theoretically enough to kill 50,000 people. We set off the alarm, put on our gas masks, and evacuated. At the other end of the building, here's a bunch of officers just sitting around. "We thought it was just another test."

3) I now volunteer at a railroad museum, and am certified as a locomotive engineer. Last year, the engineer on a commuter train in LA was texting on his cell phone, ran a red signal, had a head-on with a freight, and killed 28 people. The gov't has now banned even the possession of a cell phone by operating train crews. Last month BNSF Railway lost a 25 or 30 year employee. He was talking on his cell phone, and walked around the rear of his train, onto an adjacent track into the path of another train.

So, safety really comes down to people paying attention, which can range from attention to what is happening now, down to reporting and not using defective equipment. And,of course, in the latter case, management doing something about the defective equipment.

It all relates to people. People make mistakes. I think that reducing accidents to "zero" is a total impossibility. Certainly do all you can to reduce them, but that last 1 or 2% isn't going to happen.



   
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Joined: 21 years ago
Posts: 1453
 

Right you are, Ted. In all phases of marine operations, the cell phone has been both the best and the worst thing that has happened over the last few years.



   
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 62
 

Might could say in all phases of transportation the cell phone has been both the best and the worst to happen. It was great in trucking when I needed directions or to get a load, but it stinks when you are driving down the road and come across a driver weaving all over the place or poking along due to being distracted by talking on the phone.



   
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